The "New" Ranger: Impressions

[mrfy]

So I played another game as a ranger and this time got a victory (which I'll upload to the ladder as soon as I finish this post). My previous impressions largely remain the same. The character class is so dependent on getting a good missile weapon and it wasn't until rather late in the game that I got one (and then I had to pump it up with a lot of enchantment scrolls). At that point, I could do reasonable damage. Before that I was mostly having to melee anything substantial, because I couldn't do enough damage for a standoff battle. It would have been nice if I had ever gotten arrows (or whatever) of holy might or slay evil but I never saw any holy might and only once got a batch of normal slay evil. Once more, no staff I sacrificed ever got me more than +0, +0 arrows, so that spell really seems a waste.

Again, my experience is total opposite with Create Arrows. I'm currently level 50 dungeoning on L68. Using it on a staff of Cure Light Wounds gave 26 Arrows (+7,+7), Light gave 30 Mithril Arrows (+3,+5), Detect Invisible gave 25 Arrows of Venom (+8,+7), Sleep Monsters gave 27 Mithril Arrows (+6,+5), Starlight gave 28 Mithril Arrows of Slay Demon (+11,+11), Teleportation gave 31 Mithril Arrows (+5,+2), Teleportation gave 22 Mithril Arrows of Slay Undead (+4,+15), Speed gave 30 Mithril Arrows of Holy Might (+10,+15), and *Destruction* gave 26 Arrows of Venom (+8,+10).

And this is just from staves I found in my current level. Sure, when I first got the Create Arrow spell it wasn't creating great arrows when I was level 22, but now it's doing just fine.

[Egavactip]

Speed gave 30 Mithril Arrows of Holy Might (+10,+15), and *Destruction* gave 26 Arrows of Venom (+8,+10)

The one staff of speed I destroyed gave me, you guessed it, +0, +0 arrows.

[mrfy]

The one staff of speed I destroyed gave me, you guessed it, +0, +0 arrows.

Then something is messed up. I'm using the latest nightly build and the spell is working just fine, in fact it's producing very good ammo.

[gglibertine]

I've just been trying out the new Ranger myself, and I love the spells! I think it's a huge improvement over earlier versions. The 1st spellbook is all good utility stuff that obviates several items I'd otherwise have felt the need to carry at all times. (Food/Remove Hunger scrolls, Neutralize Poison, Mapping, digger.) If you're playing a weaker race like Elf or Halfling, that's a really big deal; even with a Half-Troll it's handy not needing food because of the natural regeneration. And the combo of Stone to Mud and Remove Hunger as spells means you can mine to your heart's content without starving to death.

Rangers are so devastating with a good bow, there's really no need for any sort of combat spells. You get good stealth-adjacent stuff in the second spellbook as well, plus you'll never be short of good ammo. And as a half-caster, I see no reason for Ranger to have three spellbooks -- no other half-casters get three.

I think it's rock solid and really effective. Admittedly, after playing since the mid-90s I've never won with ANY race/class combo, but I'm finding an elf ranger with a good shooter is dangerous enough even at low CL that I'm able to dive deep much earlier than with other classes.

[archolewa]

Rangersrs are so devastating with a good bow, there's really no need for any sort of combat spells. You get good stealth-adjacent stuff in the second spellbook as well, plus you'll never be short of good ammo. And as a half-caster, I see no reason for Ranger to have three spellbooks -- no other half-casters get three.

Small nit, but Paladins and Blackguards both have 3 books. Otherwise, yeah I agree with everything you've said.

[wobbly]

Again, my experience is total opposite with Create Arrows. I'm currently level 50 dungeoning on L68. Using it on a staff of Cure Light Wounds gave 26 Arrows (+7,+7), Light gave 30 Mithril Arrows (+3,+5), Detect Invisible gave 25 Arrows of Venom (+8,+7), Sleep Monsters gave 27 Mithril Arrows (+6,+5), Starlight gave 28 Mithril Arrows of Slay Demon (+11,+11), Teleportation gave 31 Mithril Arrows (+5,+2), Teleportation gave 22 Mithril Arrows of Slay Undead (+4,+15), Speed gave 30 Mithril Arrows of Holy Might (+10,+15), and *Destruction* gave 26 Arrows of Venom (+8,+10).

The one staff of speed I destroyed gave me, you guessed it, +0, +0 arrows.

My experience is character level matters much more then staff quality and using multiple trash staves at high clvl is almost guaranteed to give something at least ok.

So took a look at the code:

anything below depth 25 is actually identical. So Cure light wounds, light, detect invisible, sleep monster, starlight, teleportation ... these all may as well of been staves of darkness. Identical. Just same as arrows from the floor of depth = clvl.

Staff of speed is depth 40. If you roll greater then 25 on 1d40 you'd get guaranteed "good" drop. Apart from that its still an arrow drop from depth = clvl.

Staff of destruction is depth 50. If you roll greater then 25 on 1d50 you'd get a guaranteed "good". You'd need greater then 50 on 1d50 for a guaranteed "great". It's actually still too shallow to really matter, you'd possibly get better results from 2 trash staves.

Honestly staff quality isn't doing a whole lot unless you sacrifice a lvl 70 staff: healing, banishment, power, holiness, magi

[gglibertine]

Small nit, but Paladins and Blackguards both have 3 books. Otherwise, yeah I agree with everything you've said.

Ah, that's right -- I'd forgotten about Paladins. I tried Blackguard a couple of times and it didn't suit my play style so I haven't played one again, and hadn't discovered the third book.

[Egavactip]

I'm surprised no one responded to the Decoy issue I mentioned upstream.

[Selkie]

I'm surprised no one responded to the Decoy issue I mentioned upstream.

It's been covered previously. I killed Sauron in nearly the exact same manner once. It felt very cheap.

I've not had too much success with decoy, unless I can get some randart with +2 moves. Mostly enemies have a ranged spell or breath and just destroy it at a distance

[Nick]

I'm surprised no one responded to the Decoy issue I mentioned upstream.

backwardEric has had a look at it, without finding anything conclusive.

The correct behaviour is for Morgoth to think the decoy is the player until either he destroys it, or the actual player attacks him.

[Egavactip]

backwardEric has had a look at it, without finding anything conclusive.

The correct behaviour is for Morgoth to think the decoy is the player until either he destroys it, or the actual player attacks him.

That obviously did not happen at all in my case. Whereas in every previous use of the spell Decoy, it was destroyed immediately by the monster, in this case for whatever reason Morgoth could not get rid of it, nor could he ignore it, and I just sat there shooting a million arrows at him til he croaked.