Looking for beta feedback

[Quirk]

The beta has had quite a few downloads by now, but I'm lacking feedback on the changes made, particularly to archery, which is holding me back from moving on to new development.

So - if you've played the new beta and particularly if you have tried the archery changes, please let me know your thoughts.

[wobbly]

Played a bunch of Eden, not much feedback other then 1 con isn't a lot of hps and 2 not much better. Phantoms are sort of cute, sort of annoying. They seem a little too common. Bit the bullet & started a Finarfin so I'll have a better idea how stealth/archery is working once I find a bow.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Quirk, is the new beta already on the webserver? For me, I prefer the beta to be there so you can watch what I'm doing, etc.

Edit - The latest beta was already there beforehand...I didn't realize

[wobbly]

So as you can see I'm not having the greatest time getting an archer to start at the moment, out of practice rather then a change in the variant. I can say steady hands looks ok from the perspective of melee using archery to hit vampire lords.

I do have some old stuff (as old as Sil) which is unfortunately bugs & UI issues. Listen doesn't play well with the 'L'ook command. If I shift the screen left & right I get astrixs disappearing. It also doesn't play well with save & load, you have to move after loading to see anything. Targeting off-screen is also a pain, it won't select with cycle or closest & you have to manual target, push the screen with the cursor, do it all again next turn.

[Quirk]

I do have some old stuff (as old as Sil) which is unfortunately bugs & UI issues. Listen doesn't play well with the 'L'ook command. If I shift the screen left & right I get astrixs disappearing. It also doesn't play well with save & load, you have to move after loading to see anything. Targeting off-screen is also a pain, it won't select with cycle or closest & you have to manual target, push the screen with the cursor, do it all again next turn.

Thanks very much for the testing wobbly. I'll take a look at Listen, I suspect it will be something to do with the way it randomises the chance of seeing an asterisk or not. Targeting might be a riskier thing to fix if I'm going for a non-beta release, some of that code may be a little more arcane if I recall right, but I can take a look at that too.

[HugoVirtuoso]

I gotta say - I definitely favor the change that increased the accuracy to non-bonii Glaives and Polearm Mastery. I don't remember if that was Quirk or half. I like the way these accuracy bonuses are now because they help me patent my Belegost starts (even if they're intended to do better with Axes)...at least until I get my melee accuracy above 10 in the early game.

For the future - whatever you do, DON'T remove Song of Challenge! It works for me!

[Angriath]

Just dumped my latest and most successful playthrough thus far, it was originally a melee character but I changed to archery when I found some gear that boosted it and I enjoyed trying it out. Archery was really effective until I got to about 700 feet, after that there were lots of shadow enemies I had to deal with that I was spamming arrows at but couldn't really hit or do enough damage to, the serpents posed quite a problem too so I guess I should have taken up dedication and put some more points into archery rather than branching out as much as I did. I took the songs just to experiment on what they did because I figured they would compliment archery but I couldn't find much use for the ones I had.

Also I found a room that seemed to spawn infinite whispering shadows and I stood there killing lots of them for a long time to see if they'd ever stop coming, not sure if that's intentional or not. One floor I descended to also didn't have any stairs down but it was small only one or two rooms with some strong enemies, I looked around for secret doors but didn't find any before just going back up the stairs.

[Quirk]

Just dumped my latest and most successful playthrough thus far, it was originally a melee character but I changed to archery when I found some gear that boosted it and I enjoyed trying it out. Archery was really effective until I got to about 700 feet, after that there were lots of shadow enemies I had to deal with that I was spamming arrows at but couldn't really hit or do enough damage to, the serpents posed quite a problem too so I guess I should have taken up dedication and put some more points into archery rather than branching out as much as I did.

Congratulations on making it down to 750'. It does look like you were a bit low on light to face all the shadow enemies, it's hard to hit shooting in the dark.

I took the songs just to experiment on what they did because I figured they would compliment archery but I couldn't find much use for the ones I had.

Elbereth is good for archers - it will cause Morgoth's horde (orcs, trolls, balrogs, werewolves, etc) to flee, and a few of the smarter and deadlier other foes (drakes and dragons, the more dangerous spiders, etc). It doesn't help much with serpents unfortunately. I recently took it on a song archer and it performed well (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=22098). For archers I would also recommend Song of Trees, which fixes a lot of the light problems.

Lorien is strong on high-stealth builds, once you have a lot of song. It's the main way to play pacifists e.g. http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=21310. However if you're not extremely stealthy you'll wake foes back up, and if you don't have a lot of song you won't be very good at putting them to sleep, so it won't work so well.

Also I found a room that seemed to spawn infinite whispering shadows and I stood there killing lots of them for a long time to see if they'd ever stop coming, not sure if that's intentional or not. One floor I descended to also didn't have any stairs down but it was small only one or two rooms with some strong enemies, I looked around for secret doors but didn't find any before just going back up the stairs.

Whispering shadows breed infinitely in the darkness. With enough light it's safe to go and clear them out, but you didn't have much.

Occasionally you get cut off from down stairs by chasms, but otherwise I can pretty much guarantee there will have been a secret door if you had the Perception to spot it.

[MITZE]

RFE/Bugfix

Auto-stop singing Song of Challenge if the player get terrified; it seems disingenuous to continue singing (especially that song) when you've gotten scared out of your wits.

[Quirk]

Auto-stop singing Song of Challenge if the player get terrified; it seems disingenuous to continue singing (especially that song) when you've gotten scared out of your wits.

Good call! I'd never seen that interaction.

I feel like Elbereth or Staying or Trees might be more justifiable when scared though.

[wobbly]

So down to about 800' & I felt like arrow drops early on might be too plentiful? too many early, not enough late is how it seemed. Maybe I'm misjudging my elf can hit in melee so is using less then a pure archer.

[wobbly]

Just dumped my latest and most successful playthrough thus far, it was originally a melee character but I changed to archery when I found some gear that boosted it and I enjoyed trying it out. Archery was really effective until I got to about 700 feet, after that there were lots of shadow enemies I had to deal with that I was spamming arrows at but couldn't really hit or do enough damage to, the serpents posed quite a problem too so I guess I should have taken up dedication and put some more points into archery rather than branching out as much as I did. I took the songs just to experiment on what they did because I figured they would compliment archery but I couldn't find much use for the ones I had.

Serpents have a lot of armour but not many hps. With a bow it's either filling it with arrows till you get lucky or having the accuracy to crit hard in the 1st place. One thing you can consider is rakuo-bane is less necessary when you're an archer & serpent-bane is a godsend for getting through an ancient serpents armour. You went heavy armour? There I normally hit them if they come close & tank it till they wander back & I can shoot. So I'd prefer a shield (you're going to have a harder time getting weight for heavy armour use without anyway). Anyway just putting a couple of other options out there.

& whispering shadows are just horrible if you have bad stealth.

[wobbly]

Staying is ridiculous at the moment. I get 33 will which is probably FA against Morgoth, 1-5 from hardiness, 6 levels of crit resist. the 2d2 straight protection is probably about right, the rest.. anyway I've got majesty so it should be interesting.

[Quirk]

Staying is ridiculous at the moment. I get 33 will which is probably FA against Morgoth, 1-5 from hardiness, 6 levels of crit resist. the 2d2 straight protection is probably about right, the rest.. anyway I've got majesty so it should be interesting.

So that's what, 14 Song, 19 Will, with 7 Grace?

Let's see. Hardiness/Crit Resist alone gets you 1-3 prot, 3 levels of crit resist.
Old Staying takes you to 23 Will, gives 2-7 prot, 4 levels of crit resist.
New Staying is 33 Will, 3-9 prot, 6 levels of crit resist. I mean yeah, this is pretty good, but it takes three skills to get this and you're back to 1-3 prot when your voice runs out.

I imagine Majesty is pretty potent though.

[Angriath]

Serpents have a lot of armour but not many hps. With a bow it's either filling it with arrows till you get lucky or having the accuracy to crit hard in the 1st place. One thing you can consider is rakuo-bane is less necessary when you're an archer & serpent-bane is a godsend for getting through an ancient serpents armour.

Thanks for the ideas, I passed up a dragon bow because I figured 2d8 would be more useful than 1d12 (or whatever it was) but I think that probably would have helped me out along with improving my light and ability to see targets like Quirk mentioned. I'll probably pass up on heavy armour next time too and just try to make my evasion higher though I wonder then if I'll end up getting one shotted later on or something.