Statistics: The abilities winners use in Sil 1.3.0

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  • Patashu
    Knight
    • Jan 2008
    • 528

    Statistics: The abilities winners use in Sil 1.3.0

    Data source: All winners of Sil 1.3.0 and Sil 1.3.0-mpa submitted to the Sil ladder as of this post (69 total dumps).

    I used a simple python script to tally every line in every dump that looked like gaining an ability (including ones where there are commas in the ft or turn count, for example):

    Code:
    def countskills(directory):
    	list = []
    	for filename in os.listdir(directory):
    		list.extend(printskills(directory + '\\' + filename))
    	#
    	counter = collections.Counter(list)
    	return repr(counter)
    #
    
    
    def printskills(filename):
    	result = []
    	f = open(filename, 'r')
    	for line in f:
    		# example line:
    		#  27,445  1,000 ft   (Lore-Keeper)
    		match = re.match('\s+[\d,]+\s+[\d,]+\sft\s+\(([^)]+)\)', line)
    		if match != None:
    			result.append(match.group(1))
    	return result
    #
    And here is a csv of the result:

    Code:
    Hardiness,58
    Dexterity,55
    Song of Slaying,53
    Keen Senses,47
    Constitution,40
    Finesse,40
    Power,39
    Poison Resistance,37
    Song of Sharpness,37
    Crowd Fighting,34
    Critical Resistance,34
    Momentum,33
    Follow-Through,32
    Grace,32
    Rauko-Bane,32
    Sprinting,31
    Opportunist,30
    Jeweller,29
    Leaping,27
    Lore-Keeper,27
    Dodging,26
    Rapid Attack,25
    Exchange Places,24
    Heavy Armour Use,24
    Weaponsmith,24
    Flaming Arrows,24
    Flanking,24
    Lore-Master,23
    Parry,23
    Strength,23
    Disguise,23
    Woven Themes,22
    Inner Light,22
    Song of the Trees,22
    Assassination,19
    Precision,18
    Riposte,17
    Artifice,17
    Concentration,16
    Eye for Detail,16
    Charge,16
    Focused attack,15
    Master Hunter,15
    Zone of Control,14
    Armoursmith,14
    Listen,14
    Clarity,14
    Song of Silence,13
    Enchantment,12
    Blocking,12
    Channeling,12
    Two Weapon Fighting,11
    Majesty,11
    Song of Aule,11
    Knock Back,10
    Careful Shot,10
    Vanish,10
    Polearm Mastery,9
    Controlled Retreat,9
    Song of Elbereth,9
    Song of Staying,8
    Artistry,8
    Subtlety,7
    Curse Breaking,7
    Mind Over Body,7
    Wolf-Bane,6
    Versatility,6
    Song of Freedom,6
    Rapid Fire,6
    Cruel Blow,6
    Crippling Shot,5
    Point Blank Archery,4
    Song of Lorien,4
    Strength in Adversity,3
    Dragon-Bane,3
    Masterpiece,3
    Serpent-Bane,2
    Whirlwind Attack,2
    Song of Este,1
    Troll-Bane,1
    Spider-Bane,1
    Song of Mastery,1
    Throwing Mastery,0
    Notes:

    1) The different ways you can gain 'Bane' are countered as separate entries. Rauko-Bane is super popular, the rest not so much.
    2) I had to insert Throwing Mastery by hand because... NO WINNER took it. How about a buff in 1.4.0, huh?
    3) The different 'Dexterity' etc abilities are all grouped together, which artificially inflates how popular they are.
    4) Of course, the statistics are going to be influenced by things besides how good the abilities literally are, such as 'how many people are trying Morgoth killer builds vs how many people are just trying to win', whether people are taking what worked the last time for them vs experimenting to try and find a better build, doesn't take into account how useful the skill was for actually winning (vs being taken as vanity after the game was effectively won), and so on. Keep that in mind while drawing conclusions.
    Last edited by Patashu; December 13, 2016, 05:15.
    My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu
  • wobbly
    Prophet
    • May 2012
    • 2629

    #2
    Nice. I'd be interested in the joint 1.2/1.3 stats as the mechanics are similar & I have a disproportionate no. of the 1.3 winning dumps (23 of 69 are mine). For instance a fair few of the artifice smiths are mine, same with heavy armour-use builds. I almost guarantee the channellers are mostly me & a lot of the eye for detail numbers.

    Comment

    • Antoine
      Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
      • Nov 2007
      • 1010

      #3
      I was surprised to see Song of Mastery at the bottom?
      Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/

      Comment

      • HallucinationMushroom
        Knight
        • Apr 2007
        • 785

        #4
        Thanks for this, this is really neat.

        Wow, leaping 27! That is surprising to me.

        How is it possible that concentration is 16, but focused attack is 15? I don't have access to the game at the moment, but I thought focused attack was the pre-requisite? Does your script collect abilities from armor? I recall there is an armor that gives concentration.
        You are on something strange

        Comment

        • HugoVirtuoso
          Veteran
          • Jan 2012
          • 1237

          #5
          One of the artifact armours has Concentration solely...So that could be why
          My best try at PosChengband 7.0.0's nightmare-mode on Angband.live:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwAR0WOphUA

          If I'm offline I'm probably in the middle of maintaining Gentoo or something-Linux or other.

          As of February 18th, 2022, my YouTube username is MidgardVirtuoso

          Comment

          • taptap
            Knight
            • Jan 2013
            • 710

            #6
            Originally posted by wobbly
            Nice. I'd be interested in the joint 1.2/1.3 stats as the mechanics are similar & I have a disproportionate no. of the 1.3 winning dumps (23 of 69 are mine). For instance a fair few of the artifice smiths are mine, same with heavy armour-use builds. I almost guarantee the channellers are mostly me & a lot of the eye for detail numbers.
            Serpent-bane, troll-bane, wolf-bane, all yours I reckon. I really like channeling too, but only one win in the statistics.

            Doubt artefact effects are listed in the statistic. It might be mpa changed ability dependencies.

            Comment

            • Patashu
              Knight
              • Jan 2008
              • 528

              #7
              You asked for it, and here it is. 208 combined 1.2.0, 1.2.1 and 1.3.0 (and -mpa thereof) winners took the following abilities:

              Code:
              Dexterity,169
              Hardiness,167
              Song of Slaying,154
              Keen Senses,150
              Constitution,137
              Dodging,129
              Finesse,118
              Sprinting,112
              Poison Resistance,111
              Song of Sharpness,107
              Lore-Keeper,99
              Power,97
              Flanking,97
              Critical Resistance,91
              Momentum,89
              Grace,87
              Lore-Master,84
              Inner Light,79
              Jeweller,77
              Crowd Fighting,75
              Follow-Through,71
              Strength,71
              Opportunist,68
              Rapid Attack,67
              Exchange Places,67
              Rauko-Bane,64
              Disguise,63
              Weaponsmith,63
              Heavy Armour Use,58
              Charge,57
              Armoursmith,55
              Concentration,55
              Song of the Trees,54
              Zone of Control,52
              Woven Themes,52
              Artifice,52
              Parry,51
              Precision,51
              Flaming Arrows,49
              Assassination,49
              Focused attack,45
              Leaping,42
              Enchantment,41
              Two Weapon Fighting,40
              Listen,38
              Song of Aule,36
              Riposte,33
              Clarity,33
              Careful Shot,31
              Knock Back,29
              Vanish,27
              Majesty,27
              Subtlety,26
              Song of Elbereth,26
              Eye for Detail,25
              Master Hunter,25
              Song of Freedom,22
              Controlled Retreat,21
              Artistry,21
              Point Blank Archery,20
              Song of Silence,20
              Crippling Shot,19
              Polearm Mastery,19
              Blocking,19
              Masterpiece,19
              Rapid Fire,18
              Channeling,14
              Versatility,14
              Curse Breaking,14
              Cruel Blow,14
              Wolf-Bane,12
              Whirlwind Attack,12
              Mind Over Body,12
              Song of Lorien,10
              Song of Mastery,9
              Song of Staying,8
              Dragon-Bane,5
              Song of Este,4
              Serpent-Bane,3
              Strength in Adversity,3
              Unwavering Voice,2
              Orc-Bane,2
              Troll-Bane,1
              Spider-Bane,1
              Throwing Mastery,0
              Still no Throwing Mastery takers. LOL. Though I noticed that there's artifact gloves that give Throwing Mastery and 3 people were wearing them.

              Song of Master now up to 9, that's more like it. I guess it went out of fashion in 1.3.0?

              Originally posted by HugoTheGreat2011
              One of the artifact armours has Concentration solely...So that could be why
              I don't think my script collects abilities from equipment. You can look at it in the first post - it looks only for lines that look like gaining an ability on a certain level/turn.
              My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu

              Comment

              • wobbly
                Prophet
                • May 2012
                • 2629

                #8
                Originally posted by Patashu
                I don't think my script collects abilities from equipment. You can look at it in the first post - it looks only for lines that look like gaining an ability on a certain level/turn.
                Focus is the only pre-req for concentration so at a guess it's picking up a few user made notes?

                Comment

                • Antoine
                  Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 1010

                  #9
                  So on the face of it, Slaying and Sharpness seem to dominate the other Songs a bit more than they perhaps should?

                  A.
                  Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/

                  Comment

                  • wobbly
                    Prophet
                    • May 2012
                    • 2629

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Antoine
                    So on the face of it, Slaying and Sharpness seem to dominate the other Songs a bit more than they perhaps should?

                    A.
                    Perhaps. It's pretty hard to eliminate (& whether you should is questionable) a solid proven strategy. Finesse, high melee/evasion, rauko-bane, slaying/sharpness, buff & herb of rage, kill 'em all.

                    Comment

                    • taptap
                      Knight
                      • Jan 2013
                      • 710

                      #11
                      Originally posted by wobbly
                      Focus is the only pre-req for concentration so at a guess it's picking up a few user made notes?
                      mpa-sil has changed dependencies afaik.

                      Comment

                      • Patashu
                        Knight
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 528

                        #12
                        I'm not sure if Slaying SHOULD be nerfed. The thing is that popping a Song of Slaying and destroying everything is both really fun, and not totally braindead (allowing yourself to be surrounded by monsters to make your song of slaying strong is a risk, after all). In a way, it reminds me of the popularity of going Trog in DCSS.

                        I'd advocate more for buffing the other songs.

                        Also, consider if the other songs even need buffing - this isn't a list of 'best skills', this is a list of 'most commonly taken skills', and melee/evasion killdudes are not only simpler to build and run more often, but tend to be chosen for Morgoth killers too.

                        Still, it seems like Este at least could look at being buffed, if not also Staying/Mastery/Lorien. (Strength in Adversity and Throwing Mastery too.)
                        My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu

                        Comment

                        • Philip
                          Knight
                          • Jul 2009
                          • 909

                          #13
                          Strength in Adversity makes you more powerful at a time when your two options are heal and run away, and doesn't help with either. Its theme is Tolkienian, but consider that the heroes who would take it are the sort that die in a field full of dead orcs and a balrog or two, but not the ones who die peacefully in their sleep.

                          Throwing Mastery would probably become okay if it let you stuff throwing weapons in your quiver. Though even then, melee abilities are super expensive. Anyone who is going for melee to the degree that throwing mastery is better than unskilled bows will want around 7 skills or so. The 8th skill costs 4000 XP. That's about two levels of Melee, or even more in other skills, likely.
                          Put another way, for any decent investment in Melee, Throwing Mastery is probably about as expensive as Opportunist, which is better IMO. Opportunist also gets you close to Exchange Places, which is excellent.
                          Dunno how to buff Mastery, it feels like a skill not really worth going for unless you can waste at least 30% of someone's time, Lorien already has a purpose which I gather it serves decently well, Staying could possibly be buffed by giving it more dice, and Este might well be better than we give it credit. I'm not convinced it should be a thing you sing during a fight, I think it should serve post-battle and mid-battle regen (jump to the other side of a chasm, regen, jump back). Extra incentives to disengage for a bit are good in my book.

                          Comment

                          • wobbly
                            Prophet
                            • May 2012
                            • 2629

                            #14
                            Este is good, you see it when you find it on the artifact, it's just expensive & hard to get. Maybe ok if you're a doriath? The most obvious is fighting anything that uses poison. What's less obvious & I just noticed on my last run is it also cures fear. Makes it a great to have when dealing with horrors. Presumably good for dealing with silent watchers too. Handy for archers that are shooting at the bigger dragons too maybe?
                            Last edited by wobbly; December 15, 2016, 06:10.

                            Comment

                            • debo
                              Veteran
                              • Oct 2011
                              • 2402

                              #15
                              Originally posted by taptap
                              mpa-sil has changed dependencies afaik.
                              I'm pretty sure that was reverted in 1.3.0.
                              Glaurung, Father of the Dragons says, 'You cannot avoid the ballyhack.'

                              Comment

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