Planning my build ahead

[Kneller]

I'm plotting out my build ahead of time using the manual. I see a lot of Abilities I like, but I know I won't have enough exp for everything I want. So, what I'm wondering is approximately how many abilities can I expect to be able to develop over the course of a game. I know it can vary based on whether or not someone focuses more on skills vs. abilities and the types of builds they choose, but is it possible to give a round about estimate? Thanks.

[locus]

You can check out other people's characters on the ladder here: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-browse...=&c=&n=&e=&s=1

If you don't want spoilers, I'd say a character might purchase 20 abilities over the course of his or her career, or in that ballpark. I know one of the challenge games people sometimes play is to buy none.

[bron]

approximately how many abilities

I think it is more important to focus on the number of abilities within a single skill category, not so much the total number of abilities overall. I'd suggest trying to plan the build to not take more than 3 abilities in one skill group. This is of course not a hard-and-fast rule, just be aware that if you go above that it gets to be pretty expensive, so you need to have a good reason for it. And generally I violate this suggestion for the skill(s) that the particular character is specializing in (e.g. a Smithing character might take all the Smithing abilities).

For my characters, I generally have about 75K-80K experience points when I descend to the throne room. And of course you get 1000 for the descent, and another 1000 or so for encountering all the monsters in the room. So you can work backwards from that to see what you can afford. Be aware that a goodly portion of that experience happens in the last couple of levels.

If you play a pacifist build, you get a lot fewer experience points, but I don't really have much experience with those.

[Kneller]

Well, I'm looking at a Stealth build, but I'm seeing more I like/can use in Perception. This has me wondering about the house choice. I'm tossed between Finarfin for the Perception affinity, or Feanor because I can get a more desirable stat distribution to start.

Here's what I was thinking:

Melee
-----
Finesse
Subtlety
Zone of Control?

Evasion
-------
Dodging?
Parry?
Sprinting?
Flanking?

Stealth
-------
Disguise
Assassination
Cruel Blow?
Opportunist?
Vanish

Perception
----------
Focused Attack
Keen Senses
Lorekeeper
Loremaster
Listen
Master Hunter?

Smith
-----
Jeweler
Enchantment

Song
----
Song of Silence
Song of Lorien?

Anything with a ? is something I'm just thinking about, but wouldn't be a high priority.

The general plan is to focus on stealth/perception (and a bit of smithing) to start, then delve into the melee skills, backtrack and grab some extra XP.

[taptap]

Just look up the Sindarin, Doriath and Edain, Haleth winners with least experience most of them likely singers and/or stealth specialists. I never played a genuine pacifist, but plenty of singers.

Disguise, Listen, Song of Lorien and Sprinting are your friends. The biggest trouble is getting started, once you do you feel like you own the place (more than any melee char) just that all the other guys can kill you if they ever wake up.

I wouldn't take loremaster when I choose a perception heavy build, it just gets too expensive.

[wobbly]

If you want that many perception skills your probably better off playing an artifact smith & putting listen or loremaster on a helm (which will save you from needing lore-keeper for a start). If you add up the costs you'll probably find loremaster & lorekeeper are almost going to be as expensive as 8 pts in smithing + armoursmith/jeweler/artifact.

Loremaster+lorekeeper with 6 perception skills(on Finarfin): 2000+2500 = 4500
8 pts Smithing + artifact + loremaster helm (on Feanor): 3600 +1500 + 500 = 5600

[Kneller]

I wouldn't take loremaster when I choose a perception heavy build, it just gets too expensive.

That does concern me. However, there's some good experience to be had from IDing items. Not to mention that this kind of build, being as delicate as it is, might be taking too many chances by use-IDing items. Not to mention, for a stealth build, being able to recon is handy. Also, I'm not sure how it's going to play out, but if I can get bane/master hunter earlier enough (after the essentials), it's going to really boost my backstabs. Still, I'm really on the fence about it all.

I'm hoping the House of Finarfin will help offset the cost, as I still need to think about Stealth and Melee. I don't think I'll even do much with Evasion.

If you want that many perception skills your probably better off playing an artifact smith.

According to your numbers, it's cheaper to go the Loremaster route. Additionally, there's more in Perception that I want. So, the Finarfin is going to save me about 3000xp in the long run, just on ability picks. Additionally, he'll have a +1 to all Perception checks to boot.

[debo]

Here is the build you should use:

Flanking
Loremaster


...


done

[Kneller]

Here is the build you should use:

Flanking
Loremaster


...


done

[taptap]

That does concern me. However, there's some good experience to be had from IDing items. ... Also, I'm not sure how it's going to play out, but if I can get bane/master hunter earlier enough (after the essentials), it's going to really boost my backstabs. Still, I'm really on the fence about it all.

Imo, Lore Master is the perception ability for low perception characters. If I want a lot of perception (and even choose Finarfin) I would go the painful way (ID game). You will eventually get the experience for identifying as well, but you will lose a few testquaffed potions and used up staff charges though. You should plan with Listen as well, if you want to do anything stealthy this is one of the most important abilities to make it work. For me this means I already want 5 abilities and the grace point from the perception tree - now lore master is really expensive on top of that, even as Finarfin. The logic is very different when you just want a token investment in perception to open doors and chests and get loremaster for 1.5k xp instead of 6.5k. If you really want lore master with this I would probably drop master hunter and concentration and only keep focus + listen + grace.

[Scatha]

I think your build looks quite well thought through. It is possible it would be stronger forgoing Loremaster, but there isn't a consensus on this, and it's a very reasonable move when learning the game.

You might be better without dabbling in smithing. I'd also say that I've always found Sprinting a key ability with stealthy characters.

[Kneller]

I'm looking at the numbers and starting to see the value in skipping Loremaster (as well as Lorekeeper by extension). I'd be better off taking Bane and Master Hunter instead for a stealth killer. Do I have to choose categories/types of creatures for those skills or do I get it for each catergory/type after certain numbers of kills?