Sil 1.2

[debo]

Does regeneration stack? I'm contemplating seeing how much regen I can get on a fingolfin. Start with 6 con & mind over body and build a regen amulet. Vampiric weapons are common enough that I can probably find 1. Aim for jeweller artifact & regen/sust on both rings and the amulet. So triple regen + vampiric weapon.

Yes, they stack.

I did this once (almost that exact build). It was very unsatisfying.

[huiren]

Was it unsatisfying as in the amount of health recovered wasn't sufficient to make a big difference in combat? What about Song of Este? Controlled retreat is probably my favorite of all the abilities I've tried and I thought it might go well with Este and a defensive approach to fights. However, I'm not sure if Este, or regen in general, is more a combat effect or an effect that helps you reduce the risk of being at low health after combat. My roguelike experience is mostly with Crawl, in which it's, except in a few special cases, an out of combat thing.

Also regarding regeneration: the 1.2 patch notes say it stacks by increasing your regeneration rate by (1+x) times normal. Meaning one source of regeneration would double the rate. But the manual states regeneration triples recovery rate. Is this an error in the manual?

Another question: what are some ways to deal with Uldor the accursed? I've run into him at 400' with a couple characters and I felt like there was simply nothing I could do. He hits like a truck, slows you when he hits and, unlike other archers, you can't pin him to a wall. In the cases where I've had some stealth, I've just avoided him. When I had Elbereth, I chased him away. When I had mastery, he was a joke. But he's absolute hell on straight melee characters. I could neither fight nor run away, just hide behind a door and wait for something else to kill me.

[wobbly]

Another question: what are some ways to deal with Uldor the accursed? I've run into him at 400' with a couple characters and I felt like there was simply nothing I could do. He hits like a truck, slows you when he hits and, unlike other archers, you can't pin him to a wall. In the cases where I've had some stealth, I've just avoided him. When I had Elbereth, I chased him away. When I had mastery, he was a joke. But he's absolute hell on straight melee characters. I could neither fight nor run away, just hide behind a door and wait for something else to kill me.

If you've cleared his mob, a Noldor in mail and carrying a long bow can tank him with very little archery investment. Just do it from a doorway where you can duck behind the wall if it goes pair shaped or you get slowed. Dead-ending him in a maze if he's not carrying stuff you care about losing also works. I'm not sure how you handle him with high evasion warriors.

Back to a chasm also catches him.

[HallucinationMushroom]

If you've cleared his mob, a Noldor in mail and carrying a long bow can tank him with very little archery investment. Just do it from a doorway where you can duck behind the wall if it goes pair shaped or you get slowed. Dead-ending him in a maze if he's not carrying stuff you care about losing also works. I'm not sure how you handle him with high evasion warriors.

Back to a chasm also catches him.

I tend to go protection warrior style, so when I melee him we both just grind each other down. I'll often put in a 3dx weapon if I can to be the one who comes out on top.

I like killing everything I see, but there is just about no point in killing Uldor as I've never seen him drop anything good. Best Uldor drop so far for me is a flask of oil.

[absolutego]

you kill uldor because he is the second worst (worst is unique assassin cat whose name i don't dare spell) and you couldn't look at yourself in the mirror if you just ran away!

i'm not the biggest fan of archer AI (when you realize how to game it it is exceedingly deterministic) but i certainly see the appeal, it fits the game, and i've come to sort of like it. but i hate unique archer AI. fights with uldor are so weird; you can corner him so you can hit him in one of three moves, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. looks like dancing. i should make a video out of this.

i have no idea how hard it is to code these things, but maybe they could get sprinting and have them run away in bursts? or maybe just when they're hurt, so they can recover and restart? archer cat sort of works that way and is certainly a threat (the problem is that hitting him requires silly strategies.)

[kzer_za]

So how quickly should I go down with my characters? I still haven't quite worked this out. I recently played through a few Finarfins that grabbed Listen and dove really fast to until I got Vanish (typically 350 or 400), then slowed down and developed archery. They were somewhat successful, but that was with Stealth and Listen, so I don't think I can do that with just anyone. And even then I wondered if I should go back up a few floors.

I know that the XP and equipment from killing stuff in the shallow floors really doesn't mean much in the long run and that I'll have plenty of chances to kill orcs, but it does help you get started sometimes.

I know people generally like to leave time to farm 950' as long as possible before going to the throne room, but I've never made it there or even close.

[taptap]

So how quickly should I go down with my characters? I still haven't quite worked this out. I recently played through a few Finarfins that grabbed Listen and dove really fast to until I got Vanish (typically 350 or 400), then slowed down and developed archery. They were somewhat successful, but that was with Stealth and Listen, so I don't think I can do that with just anyone. And even then I wondered if I should go back up a few floors.

I know that the XP and equipment from killing stuff in the shallow floors really doesn't mean much in the long run and that I'll have plenty of chances to kill orcs, but it does help you get started sometimes.

I know people generally like to leave time to farm 950' as long as possible before going to the throne room, but I've never made it there or even close.

Going completely for stealth (perception) at start makes it somewhat chancy whether you find bow / sufficient arrows in time - if it works you are much faster w/ your approach, however.

For another approach you could try a Finarfin with focus / concentration at start, add 5 evasion, 3 melee, 1 archery and weaponsmithing. The cheap melee investment is enough for the early floors (with your perception buffs) where you can collect and make arrows and a nice 2 lb longbow. Then raise archery and if you so wish stealth abilities as well. (Light and lack of early listen may hamper you.)

If you dive too hard as a pacifist and only start killing things very late in the game, you will have significantly less xp even if you kill a lot in the depth (10th dragon gives less xp than 1st orc warrior).

[kzer_za]

I wasn't playing a complete pacifist, I did kill worms and bats and stuff. I will try a minor Melee investment for the early game though.

So what about more confrontational characters, like say a Fingolfin bruiser? Should I speed through the first few floors or not?

[wobbly]

So what about more confrontational characters, like say a Fingolfin bruiser? Should I speed through the first few floors or not?

Depends how confident you are dealing with archers. Or whether you've found enough armour or took blocking and can just tank them. I think for melee if you're seeing the same enemies all the time you're diving too slow. If you're struggling to kill things in reasonable time you're diving too fast.

[wobbly]

Do resistances not id if you're hit for zero damage? Been breathed on a few times by fire drakes and I'm almost certain I've got a kite shield of frost.

[Infinitum]

Nope. Same reason why ID'ing rPois Armour using worm masses is an endeavour fraught with frustration.

[huiren]

Instead of trying to play character types I know I play well (in a very loose meaning of the word), I keep trying wacky characters types that I don't really know how to play and I keep dying in the early game. My latest thing is 3335 Finarfins that go for archery and perception early with the intention of using archery mostly as support for melee later on. Or sometimes I won't do perception for concentration, but instead take 5 song and song of slaying, which works very nicely when you're combining archery and melee. But I've made it past 500' with these characters only a few times. One issue I have is that I don't know how to distribute my skills. I feel like if I don't push archery pretty hard, it's tough to kill things before they get close. But if I do push archery, I won't have any evasion or the experience to pick up Song of Elbereth, so if something does get close by the time I'm at around 400', I die right away.

What is a typical investment in evasion for an archer character? And what is a good target for song skill on a character relying heavily on Elbereth? I find that a low investment is "enough", but that having higher song makes enemies run away much faster, meaning I need less time singing Elbereth and have more time to sing Slaying (If I go that route). Also, Elbereth at low power isn't much help when you're already injured, but at high power it can chase enemies away even if you're taking some hits.

Finally, I feel the biggest issue I'm having, other than not knowing what my numbers should be, is with exploration. I keep exploring in a way that gets me killed. Are there any general tips for how to explore as a noisy, but squishy character? One thing that has helped me a lot is to try and explore around a scary looking room and finding several entrances before actually going inside. But I still die a lot because I walk into a corridor and horrible stuff that I had no clue was there immediately pours into both ends and I die. I'm not sure what to take from this except, "never walk into corridors at all" and that doesn't seem very feasible.

[debo]

I'm not sure what to take from this except, "never walk into corridors at all" and that doesn't seem very feasible.

Try rushing to Listen. You're already Finarfin, it should be fairly cheap.

[wobbly]

What is a typical investment in evasion for an archer character? And what is a good target for song skill on a character relying heavily on Elbereth? I find that a low investment is "enough", but that having higher song makes enemies run away much faster, meaning I need less time singing Elbereth and have more time to sing Slaying (If I go that route). Also, Elbereth at low power isn't much help when you're already injured, but at high power it can chase enemies away even if you're taking some hits.

Around 12 song is the point where you can just push the weakest balrog off the level if your at full health and have the voice to sing at him for a long time. Crowd-fighting, block and a heap of armour is one way to deal with being damaged singing elbereth. There are others.

[Infinitum]

I'm not sure what to take from this except, "never walk into corridors at all" and that doesn't seem very feasible.

Exchange places maybe? Crowd Fighting is pretty good anyhow, and 3300 XP for the stealth and ability is peanuts by the endgame. If not, you can get a bow of radiance to scout them out for you. Drawing unintelligent enemies inside the corridor and fighting with your @ in the doorway means you can always retreat past whatever sneaks up behind you.