Sil 1.2

[half]

Did you ever consider making staves more like Angband rods?

This is an interesting idea. I think I originally chose to use the staff effect rather than the rod effect because I didn't like the resting that rods encourage and I also liked the longer term strategic aspect. Once I introduced the minimum depth, the former issue is mostly moot (though people might still rest when they don't realise this is making the game harder down the line). If I were doing it over (and knowing that TOME 4 and other games got good use out of short cool-downs) I might do them like Angband rods, but it is not sufficiently clear an improvement to want to change now.

[bagori nd]

I think the main advantage of having rod-like staves is that it could add interesting choices for character planning.

If you know you will always have access to a given staff, it may make sense to partially tailor your build around it. In the simplest cases this may just mean not taking a given song you otherwise would have (_freedom, _slumber). In other cases (_earthquakes, _warding, _foes) the implications may be more interesting.

[Derakon]

What if staves were forgeable? Or if you could recharge staves at forges? Or if there were a song that let you recharge staves (perhaps a rather noisy one)?

[debo]

Maybe 'channeling' could make staves gradually recharge

[wobbly]

I think the main advantage of having rod-like staves is that it could add interesting choices for character planning.

If you know you will always have access to a given staff, it may make sense to partially tailor your build around it. In the simplest cases this may just mean not taking a given song you otherwise would have (_freedom, _slumber). In other cases (_earthquakes, _warding, _foes) the implications may be more interesting.

In the case of earthquakes/majesty, you'd be making horns of terror/blasting basically redundant. _slumber is an interesting case, some of my characters never find it, others seem to end up with 4 or 5, I wonder if there's a sweet depth for them which I occasionally dive past or whether it's just how the RNG pans out.

Edit: Sil kind of already has rods, the horns.

[T-Mick]

Let Channeling squeeze out extra charges at the expense of points of Will, like Masterpiece. Eventually, it will get hard to even activate the staff.

[taptap]

Let Channeling squeeze out extra charges at the expense of points of Will, like Masterpiece. Eventually, it will get hard to even activate the staff.

It actually would make it a viable option for low will chars, while completely horrible for high will ones. This feels wrong to me.

The easiest way to implement extra charges would be to let channeling auto-identify staffs. (Both use-ID and understanding cost charges. Also a welcome little nerf to loremaster.)

[damn]

It actually would make it a viable option for low will chars, while completely horrible for high will ones. This feels wrong to me.

The easiest way to implement extra charges would be to let channeling auto-identify staffs. (Both use-ID and understanding cost charges. Also a welcome little nerf to loremaster.)

I agree. channeling seems so a poor ability to me, I think it need a little buff (please instruct me about it's valuable use if I'm wrong).

[debo]

I agree. channeling seems so a poor ability to me, I think it need a little buff (please instruct me about it's valuable use if I'm wrong).

It's the best ability to take with any leftover experience you have the turn before winning the game.

[wobbly]

Channeling is fine, it's just a niche ability. Either useless or necessary depending on the build. It's one of the few ways to do the throne room on a non-melee/non-singer and almost necessary for a horn-build. I'd take it over inner light if I want majesty and can build a feanorian lamp of brightness.

I like taptap's idea of id for staffs. Sometimes it would be good to know you have a staff of sanctity rather than say summoning/entrapment. Of course I can tell from the number of charges. The current setup is almost id anyway if you know which staffs have what no. of charges and what depth they tend to appear.

[locus]

It's the best ability to take with any leftover experience you have the turn before winning the game.

I'm partial to Disguise in that slot. You'd better change your identity and disappear before Morgoth comes looking for his shinies...

[wobbly]

A minor detail I just noticed. Uminyar has a 1d7 longbow.

[Infinitum]

I'm partial to Disguise in that slot. You'd better change your identity and disappear before The sons of Fëanor come looking for their shinies...

Not that a petty disguise would help what with their modus operandi of sacking everything. Would make for an interesting endgame of sorts - can you make it to the mouths of sirion with the angry hosts of the Noldor high on your heels?

Also being able to craft staffs using Channeling (and willpower?) would boost it for non-smiths.

[kzer_za]

I've been playing Sil off and on for awhile. Generally my good characters get to around 400' now. So I'll admit I'm not particularly good, especially compared to most of the players here. Nevertheless, here's a bit of feedback: I think the very early game (like the first 3 floors) is a little too hard.

I get that Sil is supposed to be a really tough game even by roguelike standards, and I'm not asking the overall game difficulty to change. Most of the when I die around 300'-450', I can see a mistake I made in some way. Either tactically in the way I handled the situation, or strategically in my character build. When I get killed on the first 2 or 3 floors, though, I sometimes feel like it's out of my hands. Even for a Noldor, much less a challenge race (which I've only slightly experimented with).

So here are my suggestions:

1. Make the 100' forge guards weaker. Some characters have a really hard time handling three white wolves or an out-of-control green worm pack, for example. A strong group of guards can kill even a Noldor with some builds, and I'm sure it's worse for the challenge races. Maybe you're supposed to adapt to this and skip the forge, but that can ruin some characters in a way that goes beyond typical roguelike luck. If an archer can't grab an early longbow because it's too dangerous he'll probably find another bow soon, but who knows when a smith will get another forge? A slightly weaker mix of enemies would be good. Like maybe a white wolf and some brown wolves instead of three white wolves.

2. Slightly weaken sword spiders. I realize you're supposed to slam the door and avoid them if you can't handle one, but it's easy to run into one in a bad situation where you can't get away (like a dark room). And their attack stats are good enough to bring even a strong melee character near death with a couple of bad dice rolls.

I know, Sil is meant to be a hard game like that and that's fine, but this early your character may have no way of dealing with such luck. Most characters can't run away, you can't use Song of Elbereth, you'll have a very limited supply of items, and some character types won't yet be sufficiently built to adapt to something like this. And as mentioned before, "stay away" isn't always possible. Unlucky early deaths will sometimes happen in any RL that has a challenging beginning, but bad sword spider deaths seem especially common. I'm not sure what should be nerfed though. Maybe reduce the perception a point or two to make avoidance easier and knock a few points off the attack roll bonus.

3. Let the player choose a starting weapon. I can understand that you probably want to keep archery starts a little tough, but how about spear/curved sword/throwing axe?


Well, that's just my two cents - love the game!

[locus]

Note that if you go up from the starting level instead of down, a forge will be generated on 50', with slightly weaker guardians. I would be in favor of removing the guardians on the guaranteed forge though, it seems like it's a balancing mechanic to keep people from dumping all their points into Smithing at the start, but I don't know that that strategy is actually strong enough you need to nerf it. And it sure is frustrating to play a character who's hoping to smith and not be able to beat the guardians.

Note that a Sword Spider will not pursue you if it can't see you, so you don't have to slam a door in its face, just duck around a corner. Yes, if you stumble into one in the dark that doesn't help; be careful in dark rooms. Also putting points in stealth may help since their perception is mediocre. I like Sword Spiders as sort of a "reality check" for melee guys who think they're hot shit because they're a point or two above the early-game curve.