Sil 1.2

[debo]

Also, I forgot to mention -- if you have any sort of accuracy whatsoever, I've found Zone of Control to basically melt cats (and werewolves, and... well, I guess anything that locus would call a 'critfisher'). If you choose to fight them in groups out in the open, even without crit resist, the erratic movement means you get a jillion free hits on them. Opportunist is OK for this too.

[half]

I've been wondering about this too. It's probably more natural since we already have the breath template in the game (and don't use beams elsewhere). But it keeps horns reasonably distinct from staves.

Note that it won't work with horns of force, which is my main reason for reluctance.

[half]

I really think the crown's protection just needs to be a bit less ridiculous. The perceived "real win" in sil is kill V and get all 3 sils, so the fact that this is "optional" isn't really helping people much

clouded had an idea which I like a lot, which is that killing V does nothing for your score. It would completely hose the current ladder scoring system, but hey.

This is a good point. I know that Scatha has some ideas for changing the ladder scoring in the future and we'll take this on board.

[Scatha]

Note that it won't work with horns of force, which is my main reason for reluctance.

I don't see why it wouldn't work. We could just go through the cone and perform a knockback check on each monster in turn. The direction you knock them in would be the same as you'd currently get aiming a horn at just them. Just as presently, if you do this in decreasing order of distance it looks like it should avoid the complications.

[Scatha]

I really think the crown's protection just needs to be a bit less ridiculous. The perceived "real win" in sil is kill V and get all 3 sils, so the fact that this is "optional" isn't really helping people much

clouded had an idea which I like a lot, which is that killing V does nothing for your score. It would completely hose the current ladder scoring system, but hey.

That's a pretty good idea. I hadn't thought of using score to help frame killing V as more of an optional extra, but it makes perfect sense.

As half says, this could make sense to implement when we are otherwise overhauling score. But some of our other changes might make this unnecessary.

[half]

I don't see why it wouldn't work. We could just go through the cone and perform a knockback check on each monster in turn. The direction you knock them in would be the same as you'd currently get aiming a horn at just them. Just as presently, if you do this in decreasing order of distance it looks like it should avoid the complications.

The problem is that the standard code which does arcs addresses the squares in some arbitrary order. What you suggest could be done (using the arc code to tag squares, then pass through them again with new code in the right order), but it would definitely take hours to code and debug, so just won't make it anywhere near the top of my priority queue. In addition, I'm still not sure arcs are best for this. The main problem is that it is very unclear to the player which squares will be affected, especially if the blast is on some strange diagonal. I really value clarity for the player in knowing the effects of their actions. A cone template overlaid during targetting would allay this worry, but would be even harder to code.

[debo]

The problem is that the standard code which does arcs addresses the squares in some arbitrary order. What you suggest could be done (using the arc code to tag squares, then pass through them again with new code in the right order), but it would definitely take hours to code and debug, so just won't make it anywhere near the top of my priority queue. In addition, I'm still not sure arcs are best for this. The main problem is that it is very unclear to the player which squares will be affected, especially if the blast is on some strange diagonal. I really value clarity for the player in knowing the effects of their actions. A cone template overlaid during targetting would allay this worry, but would be even harder to code.

Change horn of force to cause earthquake effects on the squares covered by the cone

[taptap]

Note that it won't work with horns of force, which is my main reason for reluctance.

Ok, point taken.

Do people use force horns? It is a very special effect. I am recently playing around with channeling and started to use terror and stunning horns more often, but I have trouble seeing many applications for horns of force - escape against grotesques maybe - it is very hard to get an enemy in front of a chasm that doesn't starts working towards you and away from the chasm - unless you are stealthy (and then you may not want to use a horn anyway). I would consider combining stun and knockback in the horns as in the ability (may make knockback overpowered though).

[Derakon]

Would it be so bad to have one horn that fires a ray while the others fire cones? After all, presumably the Horn of Force needs to really focus its pushing power to be able to toss monsters around.

[taptap]

This is a good point. I know that Scatha has some ideas for changing the ladder scoring in the future and we'll take this on board.

Yes, let the singers rule

[half]

Do people use force horns?

I don't know. Presumably not much as there hasn't been much said about them.

I imagine they are pretty good for archers, as you can get an extra turn shooting at the enemy if it is closing in (when in a corridor, you can even do this against a group). An extra free round of ranged attack is worth a lot, and you can choose to only do it when you need it (e.g. when they have moved adjacent to you -- indeed you may even get an opportunist attack?). My guess is that this is worth a slot, but might be a lot less good if you are a stealth archer or if the chance of success is too low.

[taptap]

I don't know. Presumably not much as there hasn't been much said about them.

I imagine they are pretty good for archers, as you can get an extra turn shooting at the enemy if it is closing in (when in a corridor, you can even do this against a group). An extra free round of ranged attack is worth a lot, and you can choose to only do it when you need it (e.g. when they have moved adjacent to you -- indeed you may even get an opportunist attack?). My guess is that this is worth a slot, but might be a lot less good if you are a stealth archer or if the chance of success is too low.

Indeed this would be neat, but don't you lose a round using it? Ah... and then it is "knocked out" for one turn? Never thought of that.

Still, probably you get even more rounds with terror against most enemies.

[BlueFish]

Pardon, this is actually Belegost 4 1 4 3. Brain fart.

It seems like a more viable 4 str build is 4 0 5 3. That con comes in way more handy than the dex does, especially mid-late game.

[BlueFish]

This is not 1.2 specific, but I think it's a shame how Mithril armor reduces the effectiveness of heavy armor use, since mithril is so much lighter. I would have hoped that Mithril was unambiguously good compared to the mundane metals. I don't think it would be a terrible idea to apply a scaler to the weight of Mithril armor for the purposes of the Heavy Armor Use calculation.

[BlueFish]

No ring in the game is as likely to be cursed as one you find at 50'.

I've started a game or three of Sil in my day, and I know this to be the case.

There is some non-intuitive structure to the randomness of 50' rings, staves, and amulets. It seems that the *type* you find (str ring, or Revelation staff, or Con amulets, etc) is nearly flatly random, without regard to depth calculations. Just because a Con amulet is way more out of depth at 50 than an Adornment amulet is, doesn't mean the Con amulet is in practice less likely at 50 than the Adornment. When Adornment comes into depth, it becomes far more likely to be a given amulet you happen to find, but while both are significantly out of depth, i feel there's something in the item generation mechanic which flattens their likelihood. The net effect is that if you find a staff, for instance, at 50, it seems as likely to be Revelations as it does to be Sanctity. An amulet is as likely to be Constitution as it is to be Haunted Dreams.

But the other part of this is the modifiers, for types that give bonuses. Those are very clearly level-dependent which means that if you do find a Str ring at 50, it'll almost certainly be -1, which in turn makes it cursed.

Since staves don't have modifiers, other than maybe charges, they're often great finds at 50. They could be anything, with a seemingly flat chance of each.