Final Rest doesn't Glow?

[mrrstark]

I noticed on the weekend that a weapon of final rest doesn't glow near undead, is that intentional? It seems a bit inconsistent, I didn't analyze the combat rolls to see if it was actually working.

[wobbly]

It does for me. Was it a wraith/wight? Vampires aren't counted as undead in sil.

[debo]

I noticed on the weekend that a weapon of final rest doesn't glow near undead, is that intentional? It seems a bit inconsistent, I didn't analyze the combat rolls to see if it was actually working.

Which undead specifically? Remember the only things that count as undead in Sil have a W as their glyph.

Edit: oops, didn't read above post. Also, proximity required for glowing depends on # in the vicinity and I think even the difficulty / depth of the monster

[mrrstark]

That might have been it.

Why aren't vampires undead? Balance reason with respect to final rest weapons?

Does that mean that final rest is pretty much not worth lugging around, since it only works on W's which aren't that big of a deal, and not vampires who you end up seeing _way_ more of than W...?

I also don't get the split between serpents and dragons, and Nagathrond only works on dragons... and demons? Intuitively, I'd have expected final rest to work on vampires and W's, something to work on dragons and serpents, and maybe something else to work on demons specifically.

[taptap]

Vampirism is a bacterial disease, so no, they aren't undead. :P (I asked the same in another thread, apparently vampires aren't explicitly undead in Tolkien lore.)

Final Rest gives freedom of movement, so I tend to switch from Nargothrond weapons to Final Rest weapons when attacking dragons. I would even say they are the best of the slaying weapons in the game.

[mrrstark]

I would even say they are the best of the slaying weapons in the game.

Oh? Just for the freedom of movement (another thing I didn't know about )? Obviously the slay effect doesn't work vs. anything other than W's, so freedom of movement (on your weapon) is that important?

[Philip]

Never underestimate +10 to your will check. Entrancement also means your evasion is set to -5 whatever your normal evasion is.

[Nick]

Why aren't vampires undead?

Short answer: Vampire = big bat monster

[debo]

Final Rest gives freedom of movement, so I tend to switch from Nargothrond weapons to Final Rest weapons when attacking dragons. I would even say they are the best of the slaying weapons in the game.

I find final rest to be situationally useful -- if I am low-will stabber who will probably be entranced and starved to death by oathwraiths or unmourned, it is definitely good to have a final rest swap on hand. I find them quite useless otherwise, it's often possible to work fract into other slots.

Nargothrond and Doriath are much more useful to me in mid/late game (hi shadow spiders, balrogs, gwathrauko), and Gondolin can easily win the first 400' feet for you. I would rather just use Nargothrond on dragons to kill them as fast as possible with some other source of fract, since confuse and fear are also pretty bad when fighting them and the odds of resisting all 3 are minimal.

I've often wondered if "slay abomination" would make a better combo brand, where you remove free action and instead allow them to slay H as well. This would make them helpful against the dark Hs and provide a potential escape against grotesques for a big-sides weapon, which would make me much more likely to hold onto one. I don't like how the undead themed weapons nerf W so much by resisting what is basically their most dangerous thing (entrance), when they're already borderline too easy (except for certain builds, of course)

[Psi]

I don't like how the undead themed weapons nerf W so much by resisting what is basically their most dangerous thing (entrance), when they're already borderline too easy (except for certain builds, of course)

I hate Oathwraiths with a passion. Final rest is worth hanging on to just for them.

[taptap]

If you id manually (not by loremaster) free action is a bit tricky, as you don't want to take the danger boots instead and it isn't as easily identified as other special items. So, final rest weapons are much appreciated as sources of free action.

Just consider the following scenario:

> You hit the Great cold-drake!!!!
> The Great cold-drake misses you.
> You hit the Great cold-drake...
> The Great cold-drake misses you.
> You hit the Great cold-drake!!!
> The Great cold-drake misses you.
> You hit the Great cold-drake!!!!
> The Great cold-drake stares deep into your eyes!
> You fall into a deep trance!
> The Great cold-drake bites you!!
> You die.

A single round from full health to death.

This wouldn't have happened with a shortsword of final rest.

Of course you can get free action elsewhere or play high con + armour characters that survive occasional entrancement. It is just far from useless. (I admittedly kept them more often than necessary under the impression free action stacks, which it did not, but may in future.)

[debo]

So with builds where that is a risk, I would probably just try stealing what I want from the hoard and then run away. Ds are worth good XP but are easily avoidable, I'd rather just do that rather than lugging final rest around as a swap.

Also if you're carrying a final rest weapon around specifically to kill something it doesn't slay, I think that's sort of weird design imo