Sil: What are your least liked features of Sil?

[Derakon]

Keep in mind that we have an awful lot of tapestries from the Crusades era depicting Muslim soldiers with scimitars. Hell, the Wikipedia article has a huge number of national flags from the Middle Easty, showing the scimitar. So the Muslim <-> scimitar relationship is strongly established, and even in these days we have a lot of people who have kneejerk "Muslim = evil" associations.

[taptap]

I've always wondered about that. Is there a reason for this fantasy trope?

(I've noticed that axes and maces also seem to be typically "dishonorable" in European influenced high fantasy. Maybe because they were traditionally commoners' weapons?)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...nisterScimitar says crusades as well. I doubt this. I believe it is unlikely that such a bad reputation persists for hundreds of years when it is one of the main European melee weapons at the same time (for cavalry, in "academic" fencing and often the nascent police forces, i.e. prestige contexts). I would guess this is much more recent, mid-20th century or so. Others: Axes are probably barbarian in television, maces suffer from similarity to clubs and polearms see love only in Asia and Switzerland?

[Derakon]

I assume scimitars are associated with evil because they originated in the Middle East, i.e. the people that several Crusades were fought against. Hence they got a reputation in Europe as the weapon of choice for the Enemy.

Dunno about axes/maces though.

[Therem Harth]

Re the original topic, I feel that violet molds add a decidedly irritating, unfun aspect to the game. Actually they're most of the reason I haven't played Sil in ages.

BTW, completely OT:

the evil scimitar

I've always wondered about that. Is there a reason for this fantasy trope?

(I've noticed that axes and maces also seem to be typically "dishonorable" in European influenced high fantasy. Maybe because they were traditionally commoners' weapons?)

[taptap]

curved swords are basically awkward for all builds

it probably is a little bit more awkward for a 0 or 1 STR archer or fencer than for 2 or 3 STR brawler who is happy to wield a longsword for the first floors anyway. I resigned to the fact I will never have a spear or bow at start, but I am a bit puzzled that there is advocacy for 4 lb curved sword for rare 4 STR builds unwilling to invest in melee and evasion (extreme niche build?) but none for a humble spear (which would make the start a bit more equal for strong and weak alike).

maybe curved swords are my least liked item of Sil and I would much prefer a spear at start and remove curved swords altogether (spears are always 3 lb, so there would be no need to reroll for weight ). curved swords are as a rule inferior to longswords and have no other advantage over them which isn't the case for any other weapon in the game (apart from broken swords). it always feels a bit pathetic if you find a fine curved sword later with the stats of a normal longsword. if not forced to do so at start I would almost never bother to wield one of them. there is an useful broken sword artefact in the game, but no artefact curved sword. it also represents my least liked fantasy trope, although it is true to lore: the evil scimitar.

[MarvinPA]

I believe the average weight for curved swords is 4.0lb, so it makes sense to me to have the starting one always be 4.0lb.

I also would like the starting # of torches to be fixed at 3.

Yeah, the reason for fixing it at 4.0 was that 4.0 is the average weight, not some kind of anti-low-strength-build conspiracy. :P

Obviously there are other examples of early randomness that have a much bigger impact on the game, but fixing the starting equipment is an unambiguous improvement as far as I'm concerned.

[TJS]

Some weirdness when trying to open/close a door sometimes.

If a monster is in the doorway you will attack instead of just not closing the door. This is especially a problem when there are two doorways with a monster in one of them and the other one broken. If you try to close a door without realising the one you want is broken it will attack the monster in the other doorway. My last stealthy character died from this problem.

I also think it waits a turn if the door you try to close is broken.

[debo]

I believe the average weight for curved swords is 4.0lb, so it makes sense to me to have the starting one always be 4.0lb.

I also would like the starting # of torches to be fixed at 3.

Neither of these is gamebreaking, just a little annoying imo, obviously it hasn't stopped me from enjoying the game re: concerns of awkwardness for certain builds, that's the point: curved swords are basically awkward for all builds, it's meant to be a suboptimal starting weapon imo -- just like in wolfenstein 3d when you start naked in your cell with a handgun from the dude you just mugged

[BlueFish]

It's that checking the weight of the starting sword takes a couple seconds, and restarting takes another 3 or so. The ratio of importance vs time wasted is very large. I think over half starting swords are 4 lbs or more, so it doesn't take many tries. There is no analog to random starting equipment. If you restart till you get leather armor and boots on the first level, you'll waste a huge amount of time.

[taptap]

In any case, the designers decided to fix the attributes of that first forge for this same reason - removing reason to restart over some early-game randomness that matters. So there is precedent.

I know, but aren't there many instances of early-game randomness with much larger impact? I think of suddenly spawning bats for stealthy chars or quality and type of loot in general for example.

Or is it that you almost consider the first forge the actual start of the game because you always play with smithing and have self-made equipment afterwards i.e. aren't that much affected by randomness in loot?

[BlueFish]

Is anyone restarting the game over the weight of the curved sword?

I've been playing a build that finds it very difficult to limp to the first forge. That extra 10% damage on a 4 lb sword compared to a 3 lb one can make a difference. Restarting is 5 seconds well spent, to help me get past a repetitive part of the game. I make a new weapon at the first forge.

In any case, the designers decided to fix the attributes of that first forge for this same reason - removing reason to restart over some early-game randomness that matters. So there is precedent.

[Zireael]

What is mpa-Sil, btw?

[taptap]

mpa-sil starting curved sword is always 4.0lb

...which makes it a bit harder for low strength characters who really benefit from the occasional lighter curved sword (and maybe start with finesse or even concentration), as in general the streamlining of weights in mpa seems to be made for the convenience of mid-high strength builds (apart from certain overpowered artefacts) - 4 and 4.1 lb really isn't a meaningful difference in Sil, but 0.5 lb - 1 lb - 1.5 lb steps in mpa are really coarse grained. If you do a lot of criticals smaller differences matter. I am probably repeating myself, but I still feel I am right Is there a thread for mpa-Sil btw?

Is anyone restarting the game over the weight of the curved sword? In my opinion the single most luck dependent element in Sil is early armour and archery equipment, either there is some or there isn't, but you can't tell at start so you don't reach the point where you start over by choice, you simply have to start over at times because of death triggered by lack of armour or running out of ammo / not finding a bow with a dedicated, non-smithing archer build.

[debo]

mpa-sil starting curved sword is always 4.0lb

[BlueFish]

Not that this is a "least liked feature" for me, but this seems the best thread to put something like this in - would there be a problem with fixing the weight of the starting curved sword? I've been playing a character that starts with 4 strength recently and it matters whether it's 4 or more pounds. It's easy enough to start over till it is.