Sil: What are your least liked features of Sil?

[half]

I think it would be impossible for a game to be entirely devoid of annoying things. I have no solution in mind for it, half. I only agreed with someone else who found it tedious, then defended myself against the inevitable "you just don't play well" insinuations.

If you keep it in mind and subtly shift things to minimize the annoyance, or if you have a larger change in mind that would eliminate it altogether, then that is great. I've never seen any solution discussed on this forum for this issue that has come up several times from several people, but maybe I just missed it.

OK, thanks for explaining.

[BlueFish]

I'm puzzled. You said that the game was organised such that tedious play was necessary. Was that not a criticism or request for improvement?

I think it would be impossible for a game to be entirely devoid of annoying things. I have no solution in mind for it, half. I only agreed with someone else who found it tedious, then defended myself against the inevitable "you just don't play well" insinuations.

If you keep it in mind and subtly shift things to minimize the annoyance, or if you have a larger change in mind that would eliminate it altogether, then that is great. I've never seen any solution discussed on this forum for this issue that has come up several times from several people, but maybe I just missed it.

[half]

This is one of my least favorite things in the early game - removing your good armor when fighting green worms. It's tedious but basically necessary.

I'm puzzled. You said that the game was organised such that tedious play was necessary. Was that not a criticism or request for improvement?

[BlueFish]

It is fine for you (or anyone else) to disagree with me. I was trying to say that if you (or anyone else) wants things to change, then disagreeing in a constructive way is much more likely to lead to that happening.

I never asked for anything to change, half. I disagreed with the notion that armor dropping is an almost sure sign of a lack of proper tactics. That has nothing to do with changing the game. It's about correcting some incorrect notions about how the game actually plays, for certain builds.

[half]

I'm sorry for disagreeing with you, half. Please design your game as you please. Don't mind me. It does not occur to me that there is any obvious fix for this armor-dropping annoyance. It's been brought up here a few times before, by a few different people.

It is fine for you (or anyone else) to disagree with me. I was trying to say that if you (or anyone else) wants things to change, then disagreeing in a constructive way is much more likely to lead to that happening.

[BlueFish]

Of course I have, but quite rarely. I almost never remove my armour when fighting them, as I said in my comment.

I suppose I almost never do too. I certainly kite when I can, as anybody would, if they find dropping armor tiresome. I even prioritize killing green worms more than I probably should, just to avoid having to drop armor after they multiply a few times.

Baldy stating things that disagree with the designer of the game, with no explanation of why or how this disagreement could be resolved is not the kind of thing that leads to the designer addressing your concerns. I write this game for fun...

I'm sorry for disagreeing with you, half. Please design your game as you please. Don't mind me. It does not occur to me that there is any obvious fix for this armor-dropping annoyance. It's been brought up here a few times before, by a few different people.

[half]

Have you ever played a character motivated to explore the whole level? Have you ever retreated from a room overrun by green worms?

Of course I have, but quite rarely. I almost never remove my armour when fighting them, as I said in my comment.

The tactics of kiting slow monsters aren't interesting. They're obvious. And not always applicable.

Baldy stating things that disagree with the designer of the game, with no explanation of why or how this disagreement could be resolved is not the kind of thing that leads to the designer addressing your concerns. I write this game for fun...

[taptap]

Have you ever played a character motivated to explore the whole level? Have you ever retreated from a room overrun by green worms?

Being motivated to explore the whole level (I am) != considering it a flaw in the game, when retreating is sometimes better. I do wade through rooms full of worms or desperately try to clear a forge from multiplying worms as anyone (and get stat drained and annoyed as well), but when this happens occasionally and not every time, it can produce good stories. This btw never happened to me with vampires, despite special effects etc., simply because I am either already dead or too strong for them at that point in the game.

I had an interesting thing with two molds with my Handur. Two shadow molds (?) diagonally in a forge room - yet even when I put enough light in, I couldn't see them, but it must have been molds because of the spores. Hmm.

[BlueFish]

Ah - from your earlier post I thought you meant that removing your armor was optimal but tedious play, because there was no risk to it. If you're removing your armor and dropping it on the ground, that seems at least a little risky to me - if the dudes do blow up out of control, depending on positioning, you might not be able to get your stuff back without dying?

Yes, there's risk there, though generally more to do with getting hit by other monsters as they walk by while you're trying to exterminate the worms, naked. (I'm reminded of Breaking Bad for some reason...)

[debo]

I play smiths, who almost always craft some armor at the first forge. It's those pieces I take off and drop if I have to get through some worms and can't kite-kill them fast enough to squelch the masses. Yes, armor can be destroyed in inventory by acid - taking it off is actually counter-productive, unless you also drop it.

Ah - from your earlier post I thought you meant that removing your armor was optimal but tedious play, because there was no risk to it. If you're removing your armor and dropping it on the ground, that seems at least a little risky to me - if the dudes do blow up out of control, depending on positioning, you might not be able to get your stuff back without dying?

[BlueFish]

I really notice worms when they're in the same room with other monsters, and I have to decide how to prioritize what I'm going to do. Do I risk trying to kill the other monsters off quickly, hoping that the worms won't explode out of control, or do I go straight for the worms, and risk that they will still breed too fast and that I will be surrounded by them while getting wailed on by the other dudes?

I still get into situations reasonably often where worms blow up out of control. I don't really ever take off all my armor to fight green worms, that's a little too OCDish for me. Also, do you take off your armor and drop it on the ground? I thought armor sitting in inventory could be outright destroyed if you're hit with acid... could be wrong there, though.

I play smiths, who almost always craft some armor at the first forge. It's those pieces I take off and drop if I have to get through some worms and can't kite-kill them fast enough to squelch the masses. Yes, armor can be destroyed in inventory by acid - taking it off is actually counter-productive, unless you also drop it.

[debo]

I really notice worms when they're in the same room with other monsters, and I have to decide how to prioritize what I'm going to do. Do I risk trying to kill the other monsters off quickly, hoping that the worms won't explode out of control, or do I go straight for the worms, and risk that they will still breed too fast and that I will be surrounded by them while getting wailed on by the other dudes?

I still get into situations reasonably often where worms blow up out of control. I don't really ever take off all my armor to fight green worms, that's a little too OCDish for me. Also, do you take off your armor and drop it on the ground? I thought armor sitting in inventory could be outright destroyed if you're hit with acid... could be wrong there, though.

[BlueFish]

I agree. I never do it and it is not that hard to kill them all and never be hit with acid. There is actually a lot of tactical and strategic skill with worm masses. This (and a nod to Moria) is the reason I left them in, despite being pretty much the most counter-flavour monster remaining in Sil.

Have you ever played a character motivated to explore the whole level? Have you ever retreated from a room overrun by green worms?

The tactics of kiting slow monsters aren't interesting. They're obvious. And not always applicable.

[BlueFish]

I never do that. I fight with only one worm adjacent to me at a time.

I know. In the same way you never notice a point of con loss.

Those of us who relate our honest experiences of playing the game have had reason to cut our way through a room on the verge of being overwhelmed by green worms. In that case, we can't kite them individually.

[half]

I never do that. I fight with only one worm adjacent to me at a time.

I agree. I never do it and it is not that hard to kill them all and never be hit with acid. There is actually a lot of tactical and strategic skill with worm masses. This (and a nod to Moria) is the reason I left them in, despite being pretty much the most counter-flavour monster remaining in Sil.