Sil 1.1.1

[nryut]

Yay for the new release!
The change list is quite cool.
It's kinda sad, though, that heavy weapons lost their utility -- it was an interesting choice to make with Stun and Knockback dependent on weight. It looks like in the new version a greatsword, in most cases, will be strictly inferior to a bastard sword -- even if you employ Charge.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Yay for the new release!
The change list is quite cool.
It's kinda sad, though, that heavy weapons lost their utility -- it was an interesting choice to make with Stun and Knockback dependent on weight. It looks like in the new version a greatsword, in most cases, will be strictly inferior to a bastard sword -- even if you employ Charge.

Actually, Mithril Greatswords are probably the best weapons for 'Momentum' characters.

Speaking of 'Stun' and how it's the least impressive Melee ability, I was a big fan of it. For some reason, I always thought it made monster attacks and defenses weaker.

[WildKhaine]

Personally, I liked Stun. When going for the Str pt from Melee, I always preferred it to Knock Back. Such a pain having to run after stuff.

[Qyx]

Beautiful!

And I thought Christmas was over!

[Scatha]

Note we're not claiming that Stun was bad. It was just not very interesting for the complexity. Actually most of us probably knew what it did, so had absorbed the complexity cost -- the benefit will be larger for new players.

[debo]

Note we're not claiming that Stun was bad. It was just not very interesting for the complexity. Actually most of us probably knew what it did, so had absorbed the complexity cost -- the benefit will be larger for new players.

What DID it do?!?!?! hahahaha

I used it all the time but wasn't sure what the exact effect was. I really just liked seeing the 'ssssss----' as the enemy's HP bar, that was very sssssatisfying.

I still think momentum is more fun -- chasing damage sides with a heavy-hitter is just as exciting as chasing more '!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' hits as an assassin-type character.

[half]

Yay for the new release!
The change list is quite cool.
It's kinda sad, though, that heavy weapons lost their utility -- it was an interesting choice to make with Stun and Knockback dependent on weight. It looks like in the new version a greatsword, in most cases, will be strictly inferior to a bastard sword -- even if you employ Charge.

It is true that bastard swords will be better relative to greatswords with this change than before, and they they will still be good at higher strengths than we'd ideally like. This was part of the drawback to simplifying the rule (which quite a few people asked for). It will definitely make things simpler for new players though.

As to your exact wording, a typical bastard sword in Sil weighs 4 lb. Charge gives a +3 str bonus. So for a charging Str 2 character, a greatsword will probably do more damage (at least before criticals). About 45% of bastard swords weigh less than 4 lb, so for those even a charging Str 1 character might prefer the greatsword. A character with charge and Str 4 will probably want a greatsword that is at least 7 lb (i.e. not lighter than usual). I think there will still be quite a bit of play where people would like weapons even heavier than 7 lb. Also, there are potions of strength and herbs of rage to consider, which also give bonuses to strength, as well as many pieces of equipment.

[nryut]

half, it seems that you forgot to include boots of radiance in special.txt...

A character with charge and Str 4 will probably want a greatsword that is at least 7 lb (i.e. not lighter than usual).

But then he takes Momentum and greatswords are useless again :-(

[nryut]

By the way, do Daggers of Murder grant Assassination bonus when thrown? I guess not, but it would be cool if they did.

[Scatha]

half, it seems that you forgot to include boots of radiance in special.txt...

Actually this was tested and decided against. The flag does appear on some artefact boots, though. The error was leaving the comment that it could appear on boots in special.txt.

[T-Mick]

But then he takes Momentum and greatswords are useless again :-(

You don't have to take momentum. It may be beneficial not to take it in some cases, especially if you want other melee abilities.

[half]

New release!

I've just updated the online versions of 1.1.1 as it turns out the old 'Greaves' bug was not fully vanquished after all. In the version available yesterday (and until 2 minutes ago) it was possible to get strange buggy Greaves and Shovels with a mystery special type. If you just re-download a copy, that problem will go away (you can obviously copy over the high scores and characters). It is not a critical bug though, and ignoring it is probably OK too.

[debo]

One might say that you fixed the bug before there were any Greavances about it.

[clouded]

Are they underrated in the sense of being too weak, or in the sense that the groupthink tends to avoid using them? I seem to recall a post saying that they were very useful if you bothered to invest in them. The two have very different fixes: one requires changes to the game, the other to the players.

I don't think it's either. Personally I always carry a stack of throwing axes from the moment I find them - they are still useful even in the endgame, the problem is that they get lost/destroyed. Hugo and debo have both spoken in favour of throwing weapons and I when I look at WildKhaine's dumps he's usually carrying them. So the current community appreciate them a lot. They aren't the focus of characters however, so not often mentioned.

Congrats and thanks for the new version to half and Scatha, it was a nice surprise.

[WildKhaine]

I don't think it's either. Personally I always carry a stack of throwing axes from the moment I find them - they are still useful even in the endgame, the problem is that they get lost/destroyed. Hugo and debo have both spoken in favour of throwing weapons and I when I look at WildKhaine's dumps he's usually carrying them. So the current community appreciate them a lot. They aren't the focus of characters however, so not often mentioned.

Congrats and thanks for the new version to half and Scatha, it was a nice surprise.

Yep, throwing weapons are very useful. I usually keep a stack of throwing axes on me. I like using them to knock some hp off Giants, Spiders, etc before engaging them in melee.