Sil 1.0.2

[Psi]

Talking of game over, I had this horrid situation recently...

# #
#M#
#@#
#+#

@ is stuck in a web
The shadow spider (M) could not be seen even before I was blinded by it
The door (+) is locked

Without foolproof trap detection it is a pretty much unavoidable death situation. I did manage to free myself from the web eventually using the ',' key (as I could not step in either direction), but I was dead before I got the door open.

[half]

Any chance of toning down worm reproduction rates (or maybe worm awareness, or both) in 1.0.3? They are annoying in Angband, but can be downright crippling in Sil, particularly on the early levels. If you can't get to them before they get out of control, the smaller levels are a write-off. If they're occupying the (only) stairs, it's game over.

Interesting. I've almost never had a problem with them, and when I have it has been an interesting problem. One thing to be aware of is that if you are more than 5 squares away from them, they don't reproduce. In addition, there are always at least two stairs (up/down), but the worms could cut you off from both of them. There are also many in-game ways of dealing with them such as Follow Through, herbs of rage etc, though this might be difficult right at the start.

Anyone else care to weigh in on whether they are good or bad in their present form? I'm certainly inclined to leave them as is for now.

[half]

Talking of game over, I had this horrid situation recently...

# #
#M#
#@#
#+#

@ is stuck in a web
The shadow spider (M) could not be seen even before I was blinded by it
The door (+) is locked

Yeah, that is pretty nasty. Any suggestions as to what to do about it (if anything)?

[Fendell Orcbane]

Interesting. I've almost never had a problem with them, and when I have it has been an interesting problem. One thing to be aware of is that if you are more than 5 squares away from them, they don't reproduce. In addition, there are always at least two stairs (up/down), but the worms could cut you off from both of them. There are also many in-game ways of dealing with them such as Follow Through, herbs of rage etc, though this might be difficult right at the start.

Anyone else care to weigh in on whether they are good or bad in their present form? I'm certainly inclined to leave them as is for now.

I never had a problem with worms myself...They DO reproduce like crazy...but you can avoid them for the most part.

[Psi]

Yeah, that is pretty nasty. Any suggestions as to what to do about it (if anything)?

Only allow webs where there are two adjacent free squares?

[Philip]

Yeah, for example I had that happen in one of the mazes with a distended spider, who are usually slow, territorial and dangerous. I had no chance, considering my build was stealth, smithing(I made 3 +2 stealth items in the first forge) and a bit of melee/evasion.

[Scatha]

Talking of game over, I had this horrid situation recently...

# #
#M#
#@#
#+#

@ is stuck in a web
The shadow spider (M) could not be seen even before I was blinded by it
The door (+) is locked

Without foolproof trap detection it is a pretty much unavoidable death situation. I did manage to free myself from the web eventually using the ',' key (as I could not step in either direction), but I was dead before I got the door open.

There are a couple of good answers to this. Using a Staff of Freedom (or the Song), opening the door, and moving away; or quaffing a Potion of Strength, bashing down the door, and escaping. In either case it looks like the spider gets two attacks on you, which is nasty but normally not unavoidable death (but it does require an item).

I've had a similar, in some ways nastier situation where I was chased down a corridor into a web and the spider appeared in front of me. This one wants an item to get you out of the web quickly, and then you still have to fight, unable to take advantage of the fact that spiders are territorial. It's more avoidable in that you can try not to enter new corridors with enemies following, but it is a bit mean.

I guess that disallowing webs in corridors would make get rid of both of these issues, but it might be a bit too generous. If any traps are disallowed in corridors, I'd be inclined to put false floors in that category too, since they can effectively disconnect a level. On the other hand, both false floors and webs in corridors have powerful flavour.

[debo]

Is there any kind of debug-switch or wizard-mode I could use to test out all the smithing options? I'd love to be able to basically have 99 skills + all smithing abilities enabled (even just in browse mode) just to develop some plans for specific builds.

I've tried creating characters with all skill pts invested in smithing and then sprinting madly for the 2nd forge (I even have a save of a character who survived the trip), but even that limits my options by quite a bit.

[Philip]

How do you suggest I get out of this situation

#.#
#M#
#@#
###

where the spider was created from a web, there is no escape(there is no secret door beneath me, I checked at the death screen) and my character is too weak, to kill a distended spider?

[HugoVirtuoso]

How do you suggest I get out of this situation

#.#
#M#
#@#
###

where the spider was created from a web, there is no escape(there is no secret door beneath me, I checked at the death screen) and my character is too weak, to kill a distended spider?

Just before you got killed by the Distended Spider, did you have any spare Healing potions? Any potions of Strength/Dex/Con? In a situation such as this, I would attack back or quaff/eat a healing source, as a last ditch move. And by the way, the Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor DO heal you, as well! The chances of a successful strike at that spider depend on your 'Melee,' on the 'C'haracter Screen. Weapons of Spider Slaying are helpful here. When attacking back, I usually prefer heavy weapons, like a Greatsword or Battle Axe to do big damage to the Spider. This is my play style, though.

[Scatha]

How do you suggest I get out of this situation

#.#
#M#
#@#
###

where the spider was created from a web, there is no escape(there is no secret door beneath me, I checked at the death screen) and my character is too weak, to kill a distended spider?

Ouch! That is a particularly nasty situation. Corridors shouldn't go into dead-ends like that, and bar Staves of Entrapment there's no way that newly-tunnelled squares will be trapped, so I guess this was in an interesting room or vault? Do you remember which one? We can maybe just move the trap out of the dead end.

For actual suggestions there I guess the possibilities are to buff and fight as Hugo suggests (could work if you're just slightly too weak to kill one normally, but not if you're a non-combat type -- in any case make sure you get free of the web first), or to make the spider run away. They don't respect Elbereth, so this would need a Staff of Majesty or Trumpet of Terror (and maybe a few points in Will, or Channelling), and there's a good chance you won't have either of these by the Distended Spider part of the game.

[Scatha]

Is there any kind of debug-switch or wizard-mode I could use to test out all the smithing options? I'd love to be able to basically have 99 skills + all smithing abilities enabled (even just in browse mode) just to develop some plans for specific builds.

I've tried creating characters with all skill pts invested in smithing and then sprinting madly for the 2nd forge (I even have a save of a character who survived the trip), but even that limits my options by quite a bit.

We agree that this would be good. You don't need to be at a forge to explore the menu currently (pressing 0 will bring it up), and you can see what would be required for items needing more Smithing than you have, but you do need to have the relevant abilities.

For any particular item, you can create a dwarf who can see this information on turn one, but you don't start with quite enough experience to be able to make all types of item with one character.

[half]

Yes, it must have been a vault, but I'm pretty sure the trap was just randomly generated, as there are no specified traps in dead-ends of the mazes.

As for a solution (if any), I will either put in a check for having two empty spaces next to any web trap or leave it be. The latter may seem harsh, but shouldn't as there are about 50 new features we have sketched out for addition to Sil but never end up getting coded because I'm spending the coding time on little things like this, which need to be tested, introduce their own little bugs etc.

[Jungle_Boy]

I don't think you need to change anything with regard to traps, sometimes you get trapped in a no-win situation and die, that's why you can create more charcters. Obviously if it happens too often it's a problem but I don't think that is the case here.

Also about worms, the only time I ever have a problem with them is if they are in a room behind a bunch of orcs or something. They sit there and breed while the orcs bottle me up in the doorway. I guess knowing (now) that they stop breeding when I am farther away it would make sense to lead the orcs away and kill them then come back for the worms.

[decoy]

Also about worms, the only time I ever have a problem with them is if they are in a room behind a bunch of orcs or something. They sit there and breed while the orcs bottle me up in the doorway. I guess knowing (now) that they stop breeding when I am farther away it would make sense to lead the orcs away and kill them then come back for the worms.

Yes, this.

Also, is the five squares linear distance (including through walls)? I'm just trying to think of how I can leave a room, explore a different part of the level, come back, and have it be full (literally full) of shadow worms (nasty death, by the way). I've definitely had similar experiences with green worms at early levels, which again turns the game into a writeoff if they are occupying a key room between me and the stairs (or the stairs room(s) themselves).