Sil-Q final beta release before 1.5.0

[Quirk]

Is Thraalbee's bug only cosmetic or one that actually affects gameplay?

Check this from Thraalbeast

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24621

Cosmetic only. The only gameplay affecting bug I know this version so far is the (fixed, pending release) Oath of Iron issues.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Is Thraalbee's bug only cosmetic or one that actually affects gameplay?

Check this from Thraalbeast

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24621

[Quirk]

Some notes after "(Oath: Silence)" entry get the "Silence" suffix, e.g. "(Indomitable: Silence) and (Keen Senses: Silence) but (Disguise) don't.

Thanks. Tracked this down quite quickly; it's caused by choosing other abilities after you choose Oath in the ability menu. Will be fixed for release.

[Thraalbee]

Some notes after "(Oath: Silence)" entry get the "Silence" suffix, e.g. "(Indomitable: Silence) and (Keen Senses: Silence) but (Disguise) don't.

[Quirk]

Is there any LOTR-specific-thematic reason why is Song of Silence now even +2 to STR instead of its formerly +1 to DEX? I'm not even half-complaining at all about the new change. I never had a problem with its former function either. Certainly, the now +2 to STR is a definite strong incentive for me to integrate it into my end-game repertoire. I'm curious about this from a canon perspective. Or give more insight of what 'Oath of Silence' is expected to mean in terms of more STR (now) vs. more DEX (previously)? Sorry man, I know I'm picking your brain here

Not LOTR-specific I am afraid as the trope of "strong and silent" is much older than Tolkien, and heading back to early English source material you have the example of Robin Hood, dextrous archer and quick talker and his huge silent henchman, Little John. Tolkien's own usage is for me best exemplified by the laconic Ents, most physically powerful of all his races.

Why was it not this way before? Before Silence was competing with Honour, which also has a connection to strength c.f.

My strength is as the strength of ten
Because my heart is pure

and a nimble silent figure had its own thematic might.

With regard to freeing slaves it is most likely that this would be part of a triumphant exit, bearing Silmaril. Seeing them dejected and hopeless on the way down would set up an encounter with hopeful slaves at the surface on the return; probably this would require the player to kill Carcharoth to let them escape, which could result in additional score.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Is there any LOTR-specific-thematic reason why is Song of Silence now even +2 to STR instead of its formerly +1 to DEX? I'm not even half-complaining at all about the new change. I never had a problem with its former function either. Certainly, the now +2 to STR is a definite strong incentive for me to integrate it into my end-game repertoire. I'm curious about this from a canon perspective. Or give more insight of what 'Oath of Silence' is expected to mean in terms of more STR (now) vs. more DEX (previously)? Sorry man, I know I'm picking your brain here

Brainstorming down the road: player penalties should any slave get killed? -1 or -2 immediate penalty to player IF any companion slave killed at all be it because of the enemy or carelessness of the player...to punish players who goof around. heh heh

[Quirk]

Why can't the slaves be awoken logistically? I know they can't by design. Also Rfe: Escaped slaves? Slave revolt? Or will be too much outside scope of Sil-q?

Logistically, it was easier for me to begin with sleeping slaves and alert slaves than sleeping slaves, willfully unalert slaves and alert slaves.

It's possible I may seek to do more with them in future, but the Sil codebase is very old and hard to work with, and has no support for allied NPCs at present. This would need AI written from scratch. It's not a small undertaking, and not something I am going to attempt in the coming release or probably any minor 1.5 releases.

What is more likely is that interactions will be expanded with the few alert slaves and characters such as Gelmir may be added.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Why can't the slaves be awoken logistically? I know they can't by design. Also Rfe: Escaped slaves? Slave revolt? Or will be too much outside scope of Sil-q?

[Quirk]

Sleeping slaves cannot be awoken?

That is correct.

[HugoVirtuoso]

Find an alert one (it has a different colour or tile and is titled as Alert) and move into it. While I cranked their rarity down a little, they should be showing up roughly 1 in 3 slave pits.

It might be better to rename "Slave" to "Sleeping slave". I didn't want the player to have to waste a lot of time interacting with non-quest slaves, but some interaction message informing you the slave is asleep might help. Flavourwise some slaves being awake but ignoring your presence would have merits also.

Sleeping slaves cannot be awoken?

[Quirk]

Forgot to answer the release question: was thinking within the next month or so originally but it depends on how many bugs there are to iron out.

[Quirk]

When is 1.5.0 official slated for release? There are some things I've notice that I'll upload in the near future that need addressing.

To start with one, how do I even interact with slaves?

When I review my screen captures, I'll say what the actual issues are here.

Find an alert one (it has a different colour or tile and is titled as Alert) and move into it. While I cranked their rarity down a little, they should be showing up roughly 1 in 3 slave pits.

It might be better to rename "Slave" to "Sleeping slave". I didn't want the player to have to waste a lot of time interacting with non-quest slaves, but some interaction message informing you the slave is asleep might help. Flavourwise some slaves being awake but ignoring your presence would have merits also.

[HugoVirtuoso]

When is 1.5.0 official slated for release? There are some things I've notice that I'll upload in the near future that need addressing.

To start with one, how do I even interact with slaves?

When I review my screen captures, I'll say what the actual issues are here.

[Pete Mack]

It's worth noting that it took *many* releases to knock all(?) the bugs out of silent monster pick up. It is complicated and fragile code.

[Quirk]

I've just recently started dabbling with programming (Python no less, not C), but how does Angband remember what tiles/objects are seen/door states? Couldn't door seen/unseen tiles be handled by separate arrays with only the seen state forwarding data to the draw function and the unseen being used for game logic, with the seen state only being updated in FOV by some boolean statement? Or is that more resource intensive/effectively the same thing/unworkable? Is monsters picking up known items handled using the same logic?

The Sil code, which is very old unreformed Angband code, handles it by having two big 2D arrays of all the terrain elements: one to describe the terrain feature, and one to describe additional elements such as whether the player has seen the location yet, or if it is lit, or if it is impassible, or part of a room.

Doors are represented as different terrain types. There are various types of locked doors of different difficulties, one simple closed type and one open door type.

The combination of the terrain at the location and the seen flag generates the map beyond the player's immediate line of sight.

You need another representation of the terrain to recall how it was when the player saw it last, rather than how it is now - a third array. Of course there is no need to restrict this to doors only, and doing so would be a bit awkward as well as limiting (perhaps you want to hide tunneling from the player also). This leads to the modern Angband solution.