back porting O-variants?

[wobbly]

Some progress. Got a super rough racial list, mostly placeholders so I can test & see how the numbers change things. I went with a compromise on xp penalties: 100% base race, 110% strong race, 125% high elf... About 1/10 of the way through a 1st pass on the monster list. The 1st list is going to be a massive mishmash of things while I test every gimmick I can think of to learn what everything does. I'll try & get iconic O monsters to spawn more regularly then visitors at least & do a more authentic list when the mechanics look more similar.

Some weirdness. Capitalization is inconsistent (monster are lower-case, but they are capitalized in friends: ) . However the game wants to spit the dummy if I use Desc instead of desc, figures. Seems almost every non-unique humanoid is marked as male. Puzzled as to the reason, so started removing the flag to see if anything breaks.

Edit: I saw nothing on silver jelly to make it do what it does. Somewhere else? Lighting code?
Edit2: I tried using the kobold shaman(not in O) as mini-boss kobolds & they still mob-gen in pits. I assume that's sets elsewhere?

[wobbly]

Hmm so worked out what doesn't work. I'm going to have to convert the old list by hand unless someone has a better suggestion? V and O have a non-linear relationship between AC.

At depth 1:approx. 1.5x
Depth 10: 2 - 2.5x
50:3-3.5x
90+:3x

Morgoth's hp doubled. Most of the other big guys it's about 1.33x

[wobbly]

From player attack.c:

/* Power competes against armor */
return randint0(chance) >= (ac * 2 / 3);

I can't find ac used anywhere else, was this just a hack to scale all of the monsters at once or is ac used somewhere else? It's (*2/3) not in O but it lines up the ACs for the bottom part of the monster list. Maybe this is good news? Maybe I can use Vanilla ACs & just adjust the top half of the list?

[Pete Mack]

@wobbly--i don't know when that was added. It was certainly present in 3.0

[wobbly]

Ok worked it out. I'm using FAs monster list for now. I've converted the format to V & stripped out the monster mana. I'll add them in to a V list 10 dlvls at a time & remove broken flags & spells. Bronze worms will be flagged BR_WALL for now. Vs hydra will come across, I'll make them rare & see if that'll mostly spawn them in pits. All the humans will likely be replaced with Vs version because they're already flagged. Compos's silver worm (breathe inertia) will come across & a bunch of things with tails (like giant salamander, young+ dragons) will gain a tail-slap in melee. I'll just keep a pure copy before I add anything in.

[wobbly]

After feedback on whether to keep any of the following;

• N:260:Woe
• N:261:Aggravation
• N:262:Weakness
• N:263:Stupidity
• N:302: DOOM
• N:322:Curse Armor
• N:323:Curse Weapon
• N:333:*Identify* (reconverted to id all runes)
• N:368:Elemental Attacks(this was broken in FA, don't know about O)
• N:395:Ruination
• N:396:Weakness
• etc

with vanilla id. I'm keeping Vs mouse ring. It's a nice design

Edit: Also a good candidate monster to drop ?recall
Edit2: Perhaps healers & master rogues? Maybe master rogue should leave level when it steals? Is there an easy way to do that?

[Derakon]

After feedback on whether to keep any of the following;

• N:260:Woe
• N:261:Aggravation
• N:262:Weakness
• N:263:Stupidity
• N:302: DOOM
• N:322:Curse Armor
• N:323:Curse Weapon
• N:333:*Identify* (reconverted to id all runes)
• N:368:Elemental Attacks(this was broken in FA, don't know about O)
• N:395:Ruination
• N:396:Weakness
• etc

with vanilla id.

Unequivocally bad equipment and consumables make ID-by-use too risky to attempt. That's why modern Vanilla's cursed gear is mixed-blessing instead. I'd leave the bad gear out. *Identify* and Elemental Attacks might possibly be worth keeping. The use case for *Identify* is a little odd -- you'd want to use it on an item with a lot of unknown runes, I guess. Elemental Attacks I assume brands your melee with an element? That used to be on Vanilla's Rings of Acid/Fire/etc. and was removed because it made certain weapons (particularly the Glaive of Pain) much too powerful.

Edit2: Perhaps healers & master rogues? Maybe master rogue should leave level when it steals? Is there an easy way to do that?

You can find the code that handles the EAT_GOLD hit effect, and change it to invoke the Banishment effect on the monster after gold is stolen. I believe this simply amounts to deleting the monster from the level.

[Nick]

After feedback on whether to keep any of the following;

• N:260:Woe
• N:261:Aggravation
• N:262:Weakness
• N:263:Stupidity
• N:302: DOOM

If you're talking about O, and keeping V-style curses, ditch them. FA jewellery works kind of like randarts, so you'd have to decide whether to do that or not; the simple way would be just to keep V jewellery.

[wobbly]

I'll use Vs for now & just remove a few that don't fit.

I think I have a clearer idea what I'll do with the specialties. Nick swapped rogue & ranger hps. Instead I'll bring back athletics and you can choose to have hps on either. So with athletics paladin hps=old warrior rogue/ranger=old paladin, but that'll be a choice vs a spell realm. Rogues will pick necromancy for the old assassin & I'll use blackguards. So will need something to differentiate bookless paladins and warriors. Rogues and rangers still have natural niches.

[wobbly]

So Sangs combat code seems to be Os with a bunch of extra stuff. So I'll see if I can bring bits of stuff from that across even if I don't use it. It's got a bunch of stuff for bookless paladin at the least

[wobbly]

Worked out how V calculates blows. Just need to know what "effective weight" means in O. Not that familiar with how blows are meant to work here.

Edit:I think effective just enforces minimum and it doesn't care about class?

[wobbly]

Ok I'm going to put something up once:

4.1.3 is up
I get the O-combat code to work

both of those are probably sometime between now & the end of the year.

Most of the O-code looks self-explanatory, unfortunately it seems to call some functions not in Vs version. Some I can just remove for now, black breathe for instance. What I need to find is stuff like add_dice. By coincidence I noticed v4 adds dice for crits? Not sure, I've grabbed the code but v4 combat doesn't look very readable, not to me anyway.

Maddened Weasel has the territorial flag which is also in Sil (maybe NPP too?). Not sure if it's the same one but I suspect I'll need to work out how to put that back if I don't want that hunting down the little mages.

[wobbly]

From player attack.c:

/* Power competes against armor */
return randint0(chance) >= (ac * 2 / 3);

I can't find ac used anywhere else, was this just a hack to scale all of the monsters at once or is ac used somewhere else? It's (*2/3) not in O but it lines up the ACs for the bottom part of the monster list. Maybe this is good news? Maybe I can use Vanilla ACs & just adjust the top half of the list?

So I think when Derakon goes mumble, mumble 70% accuracy. This is here to make someone's life easier. Mine in fact. I'll change O-AC to match rather then the other way round

[wobbly]

Note to self. There's a bunch of stuff that's easy to find where it's moved to by looking where the old documentation moved.