Z+Angband dev

[johnretroreload]

I wanted to highlight Z+Angband by Mangojuice now at 0.3.3 (beta), released 12/25/2010. And to propose new development on this if anyone is interested?

https://sites.google.com/site/mangojuice75/

This was his original thread from 2008 http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=818
I've found the sound+music doesn't function despite adding the new sound set from angband + midi's.
Zangband being my favorite variant for 24 years since v1.6, I still maintain the need for adding new features yet remaining loyal to its unique features, poschengband has very notable elements.

http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=7527

(xorzac mentioned - zangband running on a linux emulator for android)
-More hardcore difficulty? Not just ironman mode.
(Hugothegreat2011 mentioned - On the other hand, PosChengband doesn't need Strygalldwir to menace the wilderness when its various mobs or dragons are brutal enough at low levels.)
(droof - I really like the random world map of Zangband. Every game a new place to start from and a new world to explore. I think that's a lot more fun than starting from the same place in the same world each time, like tome2 and unangband..I'd combine the Zangband random world and wilderness with the Unangband dungeons, like an UnZangband)

Anyone interested? Or proposing zangband new elements?

https://www.deviantart.com/art/Sword-Art-Online-angband-My-first-D-D-SAO-726397028

[Gwarl]

A brief stint of development, ended 8 years ago, making minor changes to Zangband, mostly visible due to the similarity in name with its legendary progenitor. The inheritor of the Zangband legacy is poschengband (possibly composband). Look there for a bigger, more modern, actively developed successor to Z.

[droof]

Poschengband is more like tome2 than Zangband. Which is great, just not a Zangband replacement.

I have trouble compiling Z+Angband 0.3.3. That's not a great start, given that Zangband 2.7.5 both compiles for linux & raspberry pi and cross-compiles for windows just fine. If I try anything, it'll be on Zangband.

[Gwarl]

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=496863

a lot of Z descendants suffer the same bug, Z+ included

[droof]

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...cgi?bug=496863

a lot of Z descendants suffer the same bug, Z+ included

Well, that explains why my character wouldn't roll with the v2.7.3 on zangband.org. The version I'm using, 2.7.5 seems to have it fixed without the patch. Z+Angband 0.3.3 uses that exact patch. Still good to know, thanks!

[Gwarl]

afaik it was never fixed by the zangband team or any of the descendants besides chengband. I think the debian maintainer was the only one who applied the fix. Certainly I had to do it myself when I compiled 2.7.5

[droof]

Okay, I patched it into 2.7.5, just in case.

I also tried a little harder compiling Z+Angband. The maintainer used windows and forgot linux, looks like. I had to remove a couple of carriage returns from the configure file and add a missing cmd7.o to the makefile.std. Now it runs. I'll try it out.

I like the idea of keeping everything as true procedural and random as possible, not pre-designed. That's what draws me to Zangband. I'll drop a couple of ideas for a Z variant here:
- adding missing procedural unangband rooms for more dungeon variation
- SDL interface (looking at Sangband as example interface)
- optional haggling instead of on / off at birth
- random interesting quests
- skills instead of classes
- chatty townfolk and monsters for added personality and AI decision insight
- story picked random from "7 plots", each with chatbot-style variations
- optional brogue-style inventory-based item interactions as alternative to single-purpose keybindings
- easier doomrl-style shooting controls
- multiple town themes, but still procedural generated

[Gwarl]

I want to comment on some of these.

I like the idea of keeping everything as true procedural and random as possible, not pre-designed. That's what draws me to Zangband.

And yet nobody really liked the procedurally generated overworld. Peak Zangband had a static overworld, and the variants which survive forked from there.

- SDL interface (looking at Sangband as example interface)

Forced fullscreen, forced subwindows, I have heard nothing but complaints about Sang's interface. "I really want to like Sang, but I can't get past certain design decisions"

- chatty townfolk and monsters for added personality and AI decision insight

Poscheng has talking monsters, not sure it reveals anything about the AI though. I think the talking came in around Heng.

- story picked random from "7 plots", each with chatbot-style variations

Kangband has 7 plots each with its own quest sequence. Game balance wise they're horrible but it's rich source material I've been pulling from for my own variant.

- easier doomrl-style shooting controls

This one is easy. I always keymap 'h' to *tfa5 for single keystroke firing. Vanilla angband makes this part of the default set of keymaps so you dodn't even need to make the keymap. If you wanted two-keystroke firing for more flexibility, make your keymap to fa*t.

[johnretroreload]

Nice activity and discussion here, I'm liking the ideas being suggested.
I agree on the random and procedural is what made zangband unique even when wilderness came in for me.
Nice work droof on cleaning the code.
The Quests also made it special for me, I was thinking of more sub-quests with random item drops and even armour sets for bonus? Plus an extra final boss in a special area.
I've noticed on Z+Angband that sound + music doesn't seem to function despite wav and midi in place.
For controls, I still use roguelike myself being oldschool.

I was also thinking of a zangband competition with prizes, like a games expo or gamedev presentation to really play tribute to the community and fans. Just a thought.

Okay, I patched it into 2.7.5, just in case.

I also tried a little harder compiling Z+Angband. The maintainer used windows and forgot linux, looks like. I had to remove a couple of carriage returns from the configure file and add a missing cmd7.o to the makefile.std. Now it runs. I'll try it out.

I like the idea of keeping everything as true procedural and random as possible, not pre-designed. That's what draws me to Zangband. I'll drop a couple of ideas for a Z variant here:
- adding missing procedural unangband rooms for more dungeon variation
- SDL interface (looking at Sangband as example interface)
- optional haggling instead of on / off at birth
- random interesting quests
- skills instead of classes
- chatty townfolk and monsters for added personality and AI decision insight
- story picked random from "7 plots", each with chatbot-style variations
- optional brogue-style inventory-based item interactions as alternative to single-purpose keybindings
- easier doomrl-style shooting controls
- multiple town themes, but still procedural generated

[Gwarl]

I was also thinking of a zangband competition with prizes, like a games expo or gamedev presentation to really play tribute to the community and fans. Just a thought.

We had one recently, it didn't prove very popular.

http://angband.oook.cz/competition.php?showcompo=210

[johnretroreload]

Competition response

We had one recently, it didn't prove very popular.

http://angband.oook.cz/competition.php?showcompo=210

Thats a shame, Just two participants? How can I submit a competition idea based on a development of Z+angband?

[droof]

I want to comment on some of these.

Thank you, I highly appreciate your feedback. What variant would you recommend I should look into for a "best" example SDL interface?

I would like to have both Angband's 'h' quick shoot and Unangband's 'h' item-based interaction keys in Zangband. I find them both very convenient.

Kangband's town features look very similar to those in Poschengband, do they share the same source? Where do the casino's originate from?

The static worlds and stories of tome2 and Unangband offer more variety and personality than Zangband's random world. But maybe Z's random world can be expanded to offer more interesting procedurally generated landscapes, procedurally generate more feature-rich town houses like those found in Kangband and offer multiple town themes to give each town more personality and a reason to explore the world without expecting more of the same. Townfolk could sometimes leak rumours and monsters can speak based on AI actions similar to friendband. Some monsters could have static witty dialogue that suits them.

I like the special quests from tome2, kangband and poschengband, because they offer a special quest location, quest level and a reason to kill a monster. Much better than the random "kill monster on level" quests. If each monster had its own static quest motivation description and both quest building / location and quest level could be procedurally generated, random quests could be more interesting.

If Z+Angband offers sound and music, that's great. If it doesn't work, I'm not keen on fixing separate interfaces. That's where the SDL interface could come to the rescue, one interface to fix and test everything. If I fix it for linux, it'll be fixed for windows too without neglecting one or the other.

[Gwarl]

Hmm.

As Nick said the windows interface is great. I guess people who use linux also tend to prefer ascii?

The windows port is generally preferred over an SDL one because of the flexibility of the subwindows which are offered. The GCU ports tend to be rather inflexible on how they do it and the SDL ports are generally just the GCU output translated to pictures.

Poschengband has the most elaborate system for specifying subwindow parameters to be fit into a single window (like the GCU/SDL ports do) but the syntax is arcane and it's done from the command line prior to game start.

I think X11 can do multiple subwindows so you can see what that's about without using micro$oft products.

There's also NotEye which is a graphical frontend designed to be plugged in to curses roguelikes. PWMAngband uses it.

Finally, if you are able and willing to write JavaScript we can pipe the output through the browser and script the layout to draw appropriately onto a canvas element. Probably not that much harder than configuring NotEye. With a bit of effort and understanding we could even get subwindows going running the thing in an embedded browser (e.g. electron)

I want to do it myself but I am short on time lately.

There was also this: https://github.com/takkaria/angband-webterm

[Gwarl]

About Kangband; it is the source for a lot of the things poschengband inherited though zangband and hengband. Town buildings, town quests, dungeon quests etc.

I like the special quests from tome2, kangband and poschengband, because they offer a special quest location, quest level and a reason to kill a monster. Much better than the random "kill monster on level" quests. If each monster had its own static quest motivation description and both quest building / location and quest level could be procedurally generated, random quests could be more interesting.

The questfile formats from Kangband through to poschengband are rather similar, with the latter being easier to create and work with. If you can hack some procgen into poschengbandlike quests I'd be interested in stealing it.

I have been thinking of using conditionals to randomise layout the way they are currently used to randomise quest rewards, so thieves hideout would have half a dozen layouts. There is a bug which defaults the random number to 0 in some situations. We have a fix for it (thankyou Sideways) but I haven't committed it yet because it'll break savefiles and I have a character on the go.

[Nick]

There was also this: https://github.com/takkaria/angband-webterm

And this: https://github.com/takkaria/angband/tree/wip-textui2