Static levels

[mushroom patch]

Hello all.

I am interested in whether there is a patch or variant out there that has, as the subject line says, static levels, i.e. levels do not regenerate when the player goes up or down stairs, but instead the player goes back to previously generated levels, as you see in rogue, hack, and crawl. If so, does anyone have a link?

[debo]

Hello all.

I am interested in whether there is a patch or variant out there that has, as the subject line says, static levels, i.e. levels do not regenerate when the player goes up or down stairs, but instead the player goes back to previously generated levels, as you see in rogue, hack, and crawl. If so, does anyone have a link?

Poscheng sort of has this. You can recall in and out of dungeons, which will reset everything, but if you go up/down stairs within a visit your levels will stay the same.

[mushroom patch]

Yeah, I'm looking for no regeneration of levels at all. I would guess this is a pretty significant change. The only thing I've seen that's close to it is tomenet and mangband's system, which is not quite what I'm after.

[Nick]

The good news, is that Beleriand actually does have static levels.

The bad news is that it is very experimental, and I would not swear to balance or even that it works. And this is just the source - if pushed, I could compile it. Also I have not worked on it since taking on the Angband maintainership; the plan is that at some point I will come back and graft it on to the new, cleaned up Angband codebase, but I have no idea when that will happen.

The further good news is that having static levels as a birth option in Vanilla will likely happen, using Beleriand technology; already the town is saved and reloaded now, rather than being regenerated with the same RNG seed every time.

[mushroom patch]

Hm. Well I had a somewhat perverse minivariant in mind, if I could find something that does the static levels part in something that looks otherwise like vanilla (or something like vanilla). Does the code compile? I don't want to put you out if it doesn't, since this may turn out to be a passing fancy.

I don't mind if it has balance issues. My plan is to make it even more unbalanced.

edit: important question: Does it have rockets?

[Nick]

Hm. Well I had a somewhat perverse minivariant in mind, if I could find something that does the static levels part in something that looks otherwise like vanilla (or something like vanilla). Does the code compile? I don't want to put you out if it doesn't, since this may turn out to be a passing fancy.

I don't mind if it has balance issues. My plan is to make it even more unbalanced.

edit: important question: Does it have rockets?

It's basically a single dungeon with no shops set in a massive wilderness. I believe the code compiled - what OS do you use?

No rockets - unless you count Wands of Shrapnel.

[mushroom patch]

Linux. I haven't tried compiling it. I'll give it a try. Thanks for the pointer.

[Nick]

Just remembered - I'm not sure if birth works. Good luck

[Raajaton]

Well, it's not an Angband variant, but ToME4 has persistent levels. It's quite a fun game as well, though it has a much different playstyle than Angband. ToME4 uses cooldowns instead of consumables, which leads to some pretty interesting gameplay.

[Therem Harth]

ToME 2 has an option for it. It's marked experimental though IIRC, probably because it can interfere with random quests (i.e. level generator can't place quest monsters, level is permanent -> quest becomes unfinishable).

Edit: hmm, it's not there any more apparently. Darn.

[Lionmaruu]

I have said it once or twice here already I really vote for a persistent level option on angband, even if experimental and not balanced (persistent level - with selling - levels dont spawn monsters after a certain number[# of monsters or game turns]).

That would be Awesome!

[AnonymousHero]

ToME 2 has an option for it. It's marked experimental though IIRC, probably because it can interfere with random quests (i.e. level generator can't place quest monsters, level is permanent -> quest becomes unfinishable).

Edit: hmm, it's not there any more apparently. Darn.

Yeah, I think I removed it pretty early after forking 2.3.X CVS. AFAIR it never really worked properly and was unbelievably hackish. (I seem to recall it working somewhat like dungeon towns where you'd have "fresh" identical copies of floor items generated over and over every time you visited the level.)

[Derakon]

Yeah, I think I removed it pretty early after forking 2.3.X CVS. AFAIR it never really worked properly and was unbelievably hackish. (I seem to recall it working somewhat like dungeon towns where you'd have "fresh" identical copies of floor items generated over and over every time you visited the level.)

Sounds like it just preserved the RNG seed used to generate the entire level and re-used it each time you visited. I can see how that would cause problems.

[AnonymousHero]

Sounds like it just preserved the RNG seed used to generate the entire level and re-used it each time you visited. I can see how that would cause problems.

That's exactly what it did -- and does for dungeon towns with the attendant problems. (I'm just not sure about the exact problems it caused .)

They just aren't as game-breaking for dungeon towns.

[Magnate]

The further good news is that having static levels as a birth option in Vanilla will likely happen.

I can't work out whether this will be a jaw-droppingly huge change, or merely another ironman option (like forced descent et al.). I wonder if in fact it will be a jaw-droppingly huge ironman option.

@OP: Crawl has persistent levels. It's quite a bit harder than Angband.