Angband Linux

[Nick]

I recently came across SUSE studio, which is an easy way of building a customised Linux distribution. It seems to me that it would be a neat thing to do (somewhat in the spirit of Alex Ulyanov's JnuxBand) to make a dedicated Angband Linux.

So I think I will probably do this at some point (or at least add it to my todo list), but I would be interested in people's opinions:

• Should it be a minimalist OS, or a fully-featured desktop?
• Should it be a live distro you can put on a USB, or installable, or a virtual machine image, or more than one of these?
• Should it be targeted at developers, players, or both?
• Would the possibility of having the latest versions of multiple variants all available in one place be sufficient to attract Windows/Mac/other *nix users to use this in some capacity?

In any case, it seems that it would be sensible to have as many variants as possible installed; in the interests of doing this, it would make sense to package V and variants as rpms, and I would do this as a first step. Whether it would be worth packaging things like tiles and sounds separately as a package the others depended on is another question.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Awesome!

I think a live-usb/live-cd targeted at players would be most useful. Developers can be a secondary focus. Including dev tools doesn't hurt anyone.

Is a SUSE studio generated live-cd able to save changed data (saved games) on a usb stick? (I think Knoppix can do this.)

For a live-distro, a very light desktop environment would be best. LXDE?

I really like Knoppix. It's light, easy, and full of useful programs. A modified Knoppix live-dvd/cd would be another way to do this. *bands built for Knoppix will in most cases run on Ubuntu and Debian without modifications.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Another important consideration: 32-bit or 64-bit? 64-bit is the most popular Debian architecture at the moment but I think 32-bit is the way to go here. People will want to play *bands on their old computers.

The variant I'd most want to see on a compilation like this is the forgotten classic Kamband. It still compiles just fine on Linux -- I think I had to do some tricks to get it to run on AMD64 Debian -- but getting it to run on other platforms might be difficult. It has a flavour all its own and unique game mechanics that require all new strategies to play around. Perfect for comps!

[Nick]

Is a SUSE studio generated live-cd able to save changed data (saved games) on a usb stick? (I think Knoppix can do this.)

This page (near the bottom) seems to indicate yes.

For a live-distro, a very light desktop environment would be best. LXDE?

Maybe, although maybe ease of use is the primary consideration. I'm not sure. I have used Xfce with no dramas, although I was always glad to get back to KDE...

I really like Knoppix. It's light, easy, and full of useful programs. A modified Knoppix live-dvd/cd would be another way to do this. *bands built for Knoppix will in most cases run on Ubuntu and Debian without modifications.

Agreed, Knoppix is awesome - it was my first Linux (because I couldn't get anything else to install on my secondhand laptop).

EDIT: Just saw your second post. I think you're probably right about 32-bit. It looks like it shouldn't be too hard to make changes later, too.

My grand plan would probably be to make packages for the latest versions of a whole raft of variants, but I also plan to put all variants in a main git repository, maintain my old variant and create my new one. I probably ought to try to do this incrementally.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Maybe, although maybe ease of use is the primary consideration. I'm not sure. I have used Xfce with no dramas, although I was always glad to get back to KDE...

Well, imagine people playing on their old computers with low RAM. KDE loses all its charm in that environment.

XFCE can be either fast or not so fast, depending on the distro. I'm using Debian Squeeze XFCE at the moment -- I'm trying to save all the RAM I can for my desktop publishing work with Scribus. I think it would be fast enough for a live distro. Ubuntu or openSUSE versions require a much faster computer and more memory because they have more background processes running.

LXDE is designed for people who are used to older versions of Windows. I think it's even easier than KDE for folks with that background.

Have you tried the newer versions of Knoppix that use LXDE with Compiz? Boot with "knoppix no3d" and you get a no-nonsense LXDE with metacity window manager (from Gnome) instead of the standard openbox. I haven't tried the very latest version, it might work differently.

EDIT: Many older computers can't boot from a USB-stick. Live-cd with persistent files on a stick would be a good option to have.

[Nick]

Well, imagine people playing on their old computers with low RAM. KDE loses all its charm in that environment.

SUSE studio has two lightweight options - a minimal X + IceWM option, and a JeOS options, which is really trimmed down. So one of these with LXDE would be possible.

It really depends on how this is going to be used.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

IceWM can be really nice and user-friendly. You just need to use the right theme.

An easy way to test IceWM themes is to boot from antiX live CD and try all the different pre-installed themes for IceWM.

You could use IceWM + IceWM's own panel + either PCManFM or Thunar for file manager. That's not LXDE but it's functionally very close. (Lxde = Openbox + Lxde panel + PCManFM.)

PCManFM is probably better default file manager for this project because it provides desktop icons. Thunar does not.

(EDITED. I didn't remember at first that PCManFM could do desktop icons, and suggested ROX-Filer.)

[debo]

lol I worked on SUSE studio

[Magnate]

My grand plan would probably be to make packages for the latest versions of a whole raft of variants, but I also plan to put all variants in a main git repository, maintain my old variant and create my new one. I probably ought to try to do this incrementally.

I love how we both have so much more ambition than we have time.

I have long wanted to package some variants for Debian (we can ignore the deb/rpm distinction for the moment because we can convert between the two). It's taken me so long to establish myself as the V maintainer (not entirely my fault!) that I haven't yet got round to it, but happy to help as part of this effort.

I'd second the suggestion of Knoppix - very easy to take a Knoppix CD image and modify it to seed the desktop with *band icons.

Perhaps best to separate conceptually the awesome git history of all variants from the Angppix LiveCD? They're not really interdependent, though I love both ideas.

[Derakon]

As an outsider, I'm afraid I don't really see the point. Could someone please explain it to me? What would this Angband-centric Linux distro accomplish that no other one could?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

If it's a live-cd, you can download the iso-file, burn it on a cd and boot your computer from it. Just click on a variant on the desktop to play it.

The benefit for Windows-people would be the ability to easily play variants that don't run properly on modern Windows versions.

The benefit for Linux-people or Mac-people with Intel machines would be bigger. Usually it requires lots of effort and technical skill to be able to compile and play most variants.

[LostTemplar]

Angband-centric Linux distro

Not like this. It would be angband distro, that includes some basic OS, and thus is bootable. Just an ultimate cross platform app.

[Therem Harth]

Hey! Angband Linux was my idea first!

No really. A few months ago I was considering using SUSE Studio to build a custom spin for Angband development. But
a) SUSE splits packages, which is quite annoying.
b) Live CD creation was very slow, and the resulting CDs were somewhat quirky.
b) When I thought about it, I couldn't really find any pressing reason to stick with the project. Any (non-toy) Linux can be used for Angband development quite easily, after all.

Also, IMO the big development issues are on Windows and OSX. I don't have much experience with the OSX, but dealing with build dependencies is terrible business on Windows.

That said, if you're serious about this I applaud your efforts nonetheless. Who knows, maybe Angband Linux (AngLin? Bandix?) will become the One Distro to Rule Them All.

[Derakon]

For what it's worth, the plain build (no SDL, etc.) on OSX just required downloading the development tools and then doing "make -f Makefile.osx". It's about as easy as C development can get.

[debo]

I think we should ship a bootable image you can blit to a stick and then call it "Stickband"

Kickstarter -- HERE WE COME lol