Future Angband

[ghengiz]

Searching would be a perfect target for a cooldown timer, and I can think of others too. That way, you'd get rid of the "s"-spamming currently needed playing todays Angband version.
As for spells, I see no problem suggesting new spells to be added to the current books, or even slightly altering some of the ones already there. "Magelight" could be the equivalent of a torch, you have a magical light that burns for x-rounds, and that is represented by the cooldown timer.

Even an icon for eating, switching a lightsource on/off, refilling or digging could be added to that bar.

I definitely agree with most of your suggestions, and I see your point in trying to reduce the "s"-spamming, but still the cooldown for searching confuses me...isn't the "S" command something already existing which addresses exactly this issue?

[Shockbolt]

I definitely agree with most of your suggestions, and I see your point in trying to reduce the "s"-spamming, but still the cooldown for searching confuses me...isn't the "S" command something already existing which addresses exactly this issue?

I'm not suggesting all this simply based on 1 command, the "s" command. I'm suggesting this system using icons for skills/spells as a new system for use with those who prefer to play the game either using both the keyboard and a mouse or just the keyboard. The upside would be that you'd see onscreen what keys to press in order to activate the skill or spell directly from the text info placed onto the skill/spell icon, for example ctrl+1 or ctrl+2

Cooldowns would alter the gameplay slightly, but it'd also mean that the player would need to stay focused. For example if stealth had a skill icon with a cooldown of 2 minutes or 10 minutes for that matter, the player would need to reactivate stealth in order to be stealthy....and so on. Clicking the "eat" icon would produce a list of just the foodstuff in your inventory or eat something already predefined by the player.

[ghengiz]

I'm not suggesting all this simply based on 1 command, the "s" command. I'm suggesting this system using icons for skills/spells as a new system for use with those who prefer to play the game either using both the keyboard and a mouse or just the keyboard. The upside would be that you'd see onscreen what keys to press in order to activate the skill or spell directly from the text info placed onto the skill/spell icon, for example ctrl+1 or ctrl+2

Cooldowns would alter the gameplay slightly, but it'd also mean that the player would need to stay focused. For example if stealth had a skill icon with a cooldown of 2 minutes or 10 minutes for that matter, the player would need to reactivate stealth in order to be stealthy....and so on. Clicking the "eat" icon would produce a list of just the foodstuff in your inventory or eat something already predefined by the player.

I missed the forest by looking at the tree then
I suppose the example on stealth clarifies the issue...
I understood the cooldown on searcing as in "click here to search during this turn, then you have to wait a bit before you can do it again", instead of (if I'm correct now) "click here and you will be searching till the cooldown expires".

As i said earlier, i definitely agree with most of your proposals, and now that the "search cooldown problem" is ruled out, I agree with everything

[Shockbolt]

Angband future *concept*, meaning it's far from a finished version of the UI. You'd have mouse-click access to all essential info via drag+dropable tabs such as the player tab:worn,inventory,character info, gold, AC,hits,mana,exp,level,name,profession.

Minimap:access to the minimap, access to various item, creature info, shows dungeon depth. There's a skill/spell icon tab to be added to the bottom of it later on:

[d_m]

btw, I just added a context menu option to lock closed doors, since I didn't know that was possible until I read d_m's list

Ha, awesome! I'm glad you got something out of my crazy post.

I need to fire up SDL Angband and check out all the amazing mouse work I've heard about. So at the moment I don't have well-formed opinions about it.

This is the part where I admit that I'm a GCU/keyboard/terminal chauvinist and so while I think Angband needs to support new players better, I also have to try to get myself to stop doing the familiar "angband -mgcu" and actually start playing like a new player would. :P

[fizzix]

Here's a suggestion I have which might be helpful to new players.

Move the u command for staves to U. Then make u a generic use command that brings a list of your inventory up (and allows you to switch to the equipment as well for activatable items). This way players don't have to learn all the terms like a, z, q, r, m, A, j, f etc.

Of course this becomes a crutch, and new players may not learn the other useful commands for streamlining, so I'm not sure it's such a good idea.

[myshkin]

Angband future *concept*, meaning it's far from a finished version of the UI. You'd have mouse-click access to all essential info via drag+dropable tabs such as the player tab:worn,inventory,character info, gold, AC,hits,mana,exp,level,name,profession.

Minimap:access to the minimap, access to various item, creature info, shows dungeon depth. There's a skill/spell icon tab to be added to the bottom of it later on:

A couple comments...it looks as if the information box in the upper-left is somewhat transparent, but Kavlax could still be hiding underneath it (well, not at 150'...). Does it make sense to move that box to another window or another layer so that it doesn't obscure the main map? Also, its largest design elements are gold and exp, but probably by far the most important information in the box is HP. I'd make the HP bar larger and reserve bright colors for it alone, so that you can change colors based on how much health remains.

I'd be hard-pressed to use it myself in normal play, as I am also wedded to ASCII, but it looks very pretty.

[Djabanete]

I get scared when I see people brainstorming new sets of commands without regard to the roguelike keyset. HJKLBNYU movement is vital for qwerty keyboard users so that we can play the whole game while hardly moving our hands.

[Nick]

I get scared when I see people brainstorming new sets of commands without regard to the roguelike keyset. HJKLBNYU movement is vital for qwerty keyboard users so that we can play the whole game while hardly moving our hands.

I was thinking last night that we should actually develop a third keyset - cutdown keyset? - which

1. Is not based on vi movement keys,
2. Does not require a keypad and
3. Is compatible with a reduced set of commands.

In fact (looks quickly at keyboard), I'd start with

p  [  ]

l  ;  '

,  .  /

for movement, and try to concentrate most of the other common commands in the left half of the keyboard.

Edit: myshkin points out that

p  [  ]

l  ;  '

,  .  /

might be better.

Attempt 3:

i  o  p

k  l  ;

m  ,  .

seems to be universally good for qwerty keyboards.

[Derakon]

Meanwhile I'm over here with a Dvorak keyboard. Nobody loves up.

()

[LostTemplar]

Key bindings may go into easy to edit file, so there is no reason to discuss keyborad layouts. What have to be developed is a good set of commands with:
1) only few commands to learn.
2) low key press count for common actions (e.g. 3 keys for spell is too much).
3) IMHO, too special commands should be removed (e.g. f command. There is nothing wrong if you have to press 4 or 5 keys to refuel the lamp).

[Nick]

Key bindings may go into easy to edit file, so there is no reason to discuss keyborad layouts. What have to be developed is a good set of commands with:
1) only few commands to learn.
2) low key press count for common actions (e.g. 3 keys for spell is too much).
3) IMHO, too special commands should be removed (e.g. f command. There is nothing wrong if you have to press 4 or 5 keys to refuel the lamp).

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

I think the ideal is to keep the current functionality (for now, at least), but have a streamlined command system which is the default for new players. Easy, right?

[Shockbolt]

A couple comments...it looks as if the information box in the upper-left is somewhat transparent, but Kavlax could still be hiding underneath it (well, not at 150'...). Does it make sense to move that box to another window or another layer so that it doesn't obscure the main map? Also, its largest design elements are gold and exp, but probably by far the most important information in the box is HP. I'd make the HP bar larger and reserve bright colors for it alone, so that you can change colors based on how much health remains.

I'd be hard-pressed to use it myself in normal play, as I am also wedded to ASCII, but it looks very pretty.

It's still too large, unfinished. I imagine you could hide/reveal each piece of graphical UI with a simple keystroke, that way none of them would become hidingplaces for any monsters in the dungeon.

And it's probably not even going to be used within Angband anytime soon. I just do these with hope that they'll at least inspire to improve the game

[nppangband]

And it's probably not even going to be used within Angband anytime soon. I just do these with hope that they'll at least inspire to improve the game

You most certainly did! I have been as ASCII player for 20+ years, but I am working with buzzkill on fleshing out the dvg 32x32 tileset to have a complete tileset for NPP. The tiles I am creating is nowhere near the quality of your artwork, but at least NPP will have a complete tileset for the first time in many, many years. And I am going to be working mostly on ui improvements from now on.

I also have tremendous respect & appreciation for how much effort you put into making the Angband tileset.

[nppangband]

This is the part where I admit that I'm a GCU/keyboard/terminal chauvinist and so while I think Angband needs to support new players better, I also have to try to get myself to stop doing the familiar "angband -mgcu" and actually start playing like a new player would. :P

Same here. I think Angband & variants are amazing games, but I think the group of people who play it would increase tenfold if we gave it a quality UI.