Bug report: Can shift-run over the edge of the trap detection zone

[Remuz]

Hi,

Build: 03 Jul 2011 at 20:14 UTC, revision fd51c57

I do not know if it is platform-dependant or not, but on win 7, I can shift-run over the green edge of a trap detection zone.

Maybe that's a feature, though, but I doubt it. It works fine with 3.2.

Thanks!

[d_m]

I do not know if it is platform-dependant or not, but on win 7, I can shift-run over the green edge of a trap detection zone.Thanks!

Just to be clear: where are you beginning your run?

The behavior I see (which I believe is correct) is that if I run and hit the green line I will stop. If I begin a run again I will run beyond the edge of the zone. I think that's the correct behavior.

Is this what you see? Or are you seeing something else?

[Remuz]

Sorry for not being specific enough.

The behaviour that you describe is what happens: when running, I stop at the edge of the zone ("Dtrap" is displayed in yellow). Hitting shift+direction again leads me to leave the zone.

Ok, so maybe that is not a bug, but the behaviour changed from 3.2. In that version, you cannot leave a zone by running: hitting shift-direction would simply do nothing (I double checked, to be sure ).

[jens]

So, they have improved that functionality, good :-)

[Remuz]

From my point of view, that is a regression as I tend to play (too) fast, and because of this, I often move into undetected areas. Oh, well.

[Magnate]

From my point of view, that is a regression as I tend to play (too) fast, and because of this, I often move into undetected areas. Oh, well.

Yeah, I argued against this change for the same reason as you - but I was convinced that if you are stopped once you should not be stopped again.

[Remuz]

That's the problem with software development: given a large enough userbase, no matter what you change, there will always be someone to disagree with you.

[PowerDiver]

Just to be clear: where are you beginning your run?

The behavior I see (which I believe is correct) is that if I run and hit the green line I will stop. If I begin a run again I will run beyond the edge of the zone. I think that's the correct behavior.

Is this what you see? Or are you seeing something else?

We want to force the player to take a single step, not run, as a check that he really wants to enter a zone without trap detection. Seriously -- once you have trap detection available, would you habitually do such a thing? Isn't there a substantial likelihood that you made a mistake and would prefer to be protected?

Runs stop for reasons that appear random. For example, a fast monster steps in and out of LOS without ever being displayed, and I am sure there are plenty more. There are lots of times when I look and still have no idea why the run ended. I want to keep hitting the run keys, and if I don't move then I know I have a decision to make.

[jens]

Having to hit same key twice is something that really bugs me, so for me this is a good change. If anything needs fixing it would be to ensure that the run is not disturbed as easy as it is today. One thing that I feel should not disturb is treasure. If you want to dig, you go ahead and walk up to the treasure, I just want to run by it.

[Derakon]

I'm gonna side with PowerDiver here. I'll often keep hitting shift-move several times before realizing that the reason I'm not running is because I'm at the edge of detection. This change will mean that I'll accidentally leave the detected area much more easily, which in turn means I'll likely be hit by more traps. I'm not really seeing the corresponding benefit.

[jens]

The benefit comes when you grow accustomed to this change, and can run more smoothly and with fewer key presses

[Derakon]

But I don't want to run smoothly with fewer keypresses. I want to be prevented from running past the border of my trap detection. As Eddie noted, there's plenty of situations in which running stops for trivial reasons and you need to restart it, to the point where if I don't see anything obvious in the area that stops the running (and the trap detection border is not always obvious) then I'll reflexively start running again.

Now if every single running disturbance were non-trivial, which I doubt is achievable, then every time running stopped I'd want to take a look around and figure out why. But that's not the case currently. Thus why this change is an anti-feature.

[buzzkill]

I'll often keep hitting shift-move several times before realizing that the reason I'm not running is because I'm at the edge of detection.

Pay more attention to what you're doing is the obvious answer. If traps were more dangerous, I guess you would be be more careful, but they're not. There is an indicator in the status area that changes color (from green to yellow) when you're on the border, right? Angband does interrupt your running, right? What do you want, a pop-up window and an audible alarm*.

In any case, stumbling into a trap, even a deadly trap, even once in a while because you can't be bothered to pay attention to what you're doing, even while nanny-Angband tries to warn you, is perfectly poetic justice.

* Honestly, I think sound effects would be put to better use as an informative tool, rather than the current flavor-less implementation.

[Magnate]

But I don't want to run smoothly with fewer keypresses. I want to be prevented from running past the border of my trap detection. As Eddie noted, there's plenty of situations in which running stops for trivial reasons and you need to restart it, to the point where if I don't see anything obvious in the area that stops the running (and the trap detection border is not always obvious) then I'll reflexively start running again.

Now if every single running disturbance were non-trivial, which I doubt is achievable, then every time running stopped I'd want to take a look around and figure out why. But that's not the case currently. Thus why this change is an anti-feature.

Interesting that this is generating debate now. This change was made seven months ago, right around the release of 3.2.0 (I'm not sure if it made 3.2.0 - trac says not but could be wrong.)

I originally had the same view as Eddie and Derakon (and the OP). But takkaria felt it was more logical behaviour that the DTrap border stops you running once rather than infinitely.

I rather share the view that when d_m and gabe make traps more deadly (sorry, interesting), everyone will do rather less running and this debate will go away ... (mwa-ha-ha ...)

[Derakon]

It's not that traps themselves aren't dangerous enough. They certainly can be if you're unlucky. It's that there's a half million other things that disturb running while not being dangerous, and I can't always tell if I'm being disturbed by one of those or by the trap detection border.

Functionally the argument being put forth by some of you is "You're playing wrong, stop that and this will stop being a problem for you." That strikes me as a bit unkind.