Dungeon size: small

[Magnate]

OTOH, unless I am overlooking something, a couple of destructions in the wrong place can get an ironman character stuck forever in a level. I would think twice before starting an ironman character in the new versions.

If we do want to keep this destruction-removes-stairs patch, another possible solution is allowing tunnelling through the floor to leave the level, like in Nethack.
OTOH, this leads to other potentially unbalanced side-effects: for instance, divers would no longer need to wander around a level to find a staircase down.

This is why the destruction-creates-trapdoor-if-it-removes-stairs-down is such a neat solution - it solves the ironman problem without that side effect on diving. Ironmen would need to be careful to avoid disarming the trapdoor though ('W' in standard keyset to walk into it).

[Max Stats]

OTOH, unless I am overlooking something, a couple of destructions in the wrong place can get an ironman character stuck forever in a level. I would think twice before starting an ironman character in the new versions.

If we do want to keep this destruction-removes-stairs patch, another possible solution is allowing tunnelling through the floor to leave the level, like in Nethack.
OTOH, this leads to other potentially unbalanced side-effects: for instance, divers would no longer need to wander around a level to find a staircase down.

What if this were only possible in an area that had been destructed? That would mean that the floor has been weakened to the point that it is possible to dig through. Saves you the trouble of creating a trapdoor, which seems a bit of a hack.

Oooh, carrying this a bit further, how about after a few destructions in the same spot, there is a chance that the dungeon caves in under you and drops you to the next level? Barring, of course, the un-killed quest monster on the current level.

[Derakon]

This reminds me: I can't remember the last time I entered a level and discovered it had been destructed already. I always liked that bit of flavor. Anyone know why it was removed?

As for the "don't let destruction trap you" issue, I'd suggest simply having a new dungeon feature, "gaping hole", that acts like a trapdoor when walked on, but is always visible and can't be disarmed, unlike traps. Then just generate one or two of those whenever Destruction is used, modulo the usual "can't skip quest monsters" stuff.

[Netbrian]

This is why the destruction-creates-trapdoor-if-it-removes-stairs-down is such a neat solution - it solves the ironman problem without that side effect on diving. Ironmen would need to be careful to avoid disarming the trapdoor though ('W' in standard keyset to walk into it).

I think that this is still more trouble than having destruction destroy stairs is worth, due to the fact the trapdoor can be disarmed. I'd as soon leave out the mechanic altogether.

[Magnate]

This reminds me: I can't remember the last time I entered a level and discovered it had been destructed already. I always liked that bit of flavor. Anyone know why it was removed?

Everyone else hated them. Honest.

[Max Stats]

This reminds me: I can't remember the last time I entered a level and discovered it had been destructed already. I always liked that bit of flavor. Anyone know why it was removed?

As for the "don't let destruction trap you" issue, I'd suggest simply having a new dungeon feature, "gaping hole", that acts like a trapdoor when walked on, but is always visible and can't be disarmed, unlike traps. Then just generate one or two of those whenever Destruction is used, modulo the usual "can't skip quest monsters" stuff.

If we want to be a bit silly, the holes could still be created on quest levels, but if you try to jump into one, a magical trampoline could bounce you back up to the current level, with a slight chance of minor damage from hitting your head on the ceiling.

I like the idea; I think a nice touch would be to confirm that you actually want to jump into the hole.

[Derakon]

Everyone else hated them. Honest.

Well that just confirms my long-held suspicion that I'm the only person with any taste around here.

[Timo Pietilä]

Well that just confirms my long-held suspicion that I'm the only person with any taste around here.

Not the only one, I did find them refreshing. They certainly were more interesting than maze-levels in current dev-version.

[Timo Pietilä]

I agree that more different types of dungeons is a good thing, but the old style dungeon should be the main one. It was not broken, so there is no reason to fix it.

Old style maybe 60% of time, rest of the types 40% of the time would be good I think.

For the rest, could you do something for the initial position of the player? I have found myself now in several cases completely surrounded in melee-distance by several groups of monsters upon arriving to the level. That's really dangerous deeper in dungeon, especially with this small dungeons. There were no space to even use the old "create doors" tactic.

I think current level generation guarantees that I get the first move (including melee, unlike in old versions), but if those groups were something like gravity hounds and time hounds only solution would be to immediately bail out (*destruction* or mass banish if available). Teleporting deep in dungeon can be death sentence, and I would like to avoid that if I can.

[Derakon]

I have had a couple of situations now where a fight's gone bad, so I've teleported level, and then had to teleport level again on my next one or two turns because I entered the new level in a bad position.

NPP apparently goes out of its way to bring the player in in a secluded area with no monsters around (generally around a corner in a corridor). Might be worth borrowing that.

[s0be]

If we want to be a bit silly, the holes could still be created on quest levels, but if you try to jump into one, a magical trampoline could bounce you back up to the current level, with a slight chance of minor damage from hitting your head on the ceiling.

I like the idea; I think a nice touch would be to confirm that you actually want to jump into the hole.

"You jump into the hole down" ... "you miss"

[buzzkill]

"You jump into the hole down" ... "you miss"

"You jump into the hole down"... "you are stuck."

[Timo Pietilä]

"You jump into the hole down"... "you are stuck."

"You jump into the hole down" ... "your big fat ass doesn't fit thru" ... "you hear something below you laughing itself to death" [Gain some XP]