Item generation suggestion

[Timo Pietilä]

Hello.

Now that monster drops have been reduced somewhat I suggest that item generation at the floor gets a small boost. Something like 10-20% more than it is now. I'm having hard time finding stat-potions while in older system you were strolling knee deep in those potions (due to monster drops).

Good thing in floor generation is that that is single event and items don't spawn like monsters do, so there is very little risk in overdoing that. It would also make a bit more probable to find something useful without killing billion monsters, and makes "wandering around to see what's there" less boring.

Every wearable item at the floor is a tiny mystery. "is that the one that gave this floor a good feeling? Or is it the one that is over there?"

[PowerDiver]

I think consumables are way too rare. I've been proposing tripling drops to make up for it, but perhaps doubling floor items is a better approach. I don't think 20% is enough. I would also increase the rarities of all weapons and armor by at least as large an amount to stop more from being produced, but I see you specifically mentioned wearable items.

Perhaps a significant increase would allow us to revert to drop depth = avg of monster depth and dungeon depth, rather than the current max of those depths.

[Magnate]

As someone who does a lot of creeping around with high stealth characters way out of their depth not killing much, this change would suit me fine.

[Rizwan]

I would also increase the rarities of all weapons and armor by at least as large an amount to stop more from being produced.

Instead of doing that what about limiting ego item generation to only one of each kind like one dagger of frost, one rapier of frost, one awl-pike of frost etc and so on for the other bands?

[Tiburon Silverflame]

Instead of doing that what about limiting ego item generation to only one of each kind like one dagger of frost, one rapier of frost, one awl-pike of frost etc and so on for the other bands?

So what would be dropping instead? The problem is the amount of equipment dropped, to a far greater degree than the quality of the drops.

And doing this, you'd almost certainly want to allow enchantment scrolls to give much higher bonuses than they do now.

Making floor drops stronger would have one obvious side effect: you'll want to explore the level to a much greater degree, or you'll miss out on more stuff. Right now, if you've got a troll pit (say) on a level that is accounting for most of the level feeling (you think)...once you've cleared that and harvested the goodies you gain, it might well be time to move on. (Especially if you can use Enlightenment on the level, and see no spellbooks you need, and no un-ID'd stuff of a type you really want.)

Now, PART of the problem of TMJ is simply that there's *so many* items. Some of them will always be problematic in any particular game; spellbooks are basically junk for anyone who can't use them, for example. But there's also a ton of stuff that is rarely used by anyone, *especially* in the consumables section. Why don't we find any !Healing? Cuz there's 30 kagillion different potions, so the odds that we'll get a !Healing even when it's possible to do so, aren't good. Junk to borderline-useful potions:

CLW, CSW: make these rare dungeon drops, but leave them in the temple as is.

Neut Poison, Infravision, maybe True Seeing: do we waste slots on these? If so, then again, perhaps put them into the store but don't drop them in the dungeon, because after a while I don't think we use them at all.

all the gain 1/lose 1 potions: Yes, I've used them occasionally, but I completely live without them.

And of course, the 8 explicitly bad ones of the 54...that's a high percentage, IMO.

In some cases, tho, there are level restrictions that should help. But looking at object.txt...Heroism, Berserk, Boldness, rHeat, and rCold are level 1-100 drops (Berserk starts on 3, but still). And they're all common. Sounds like another good candidate for being in the stores with fairly high counts, but maybe NOT being dropped, especially at greater depths, nearly as often.

[PowerDiver]

Many of the things you don't like have maximum DLs, so they don't hurt much vs major consumables. Go deep and those stop being generated, except that there is a bug with chests.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

::nods:: I saw that, PD, which is why I added the point about the Heroism, Berserk, etc.

[fizzix]

CLW, CSW: make these rare dungeon drops, but leave them in the temple as is.

Neut Poison, Infravision, maybe True Seeing: do we waste slots on these? If so, then again, perhaps put them into the store but don't drop them in the dungeon, because after a while I don't think we use them at all.

all the gain 1/lose 1 potions: Yes, I've used them occasionally, but I completely live without them.

And of course, the 8 explicitly bad ones of the 54...that's a high percentage, IMO.

Almost all of these have max levels after which they're never generated or dropped in the dungeon (except from a chest)

In fact the list of potions to choose from at dlevel 99 are the following:

statgain (6)
aug
exp
ccw
healing
*healing*
life
rmana
restore life levels
enlight
*enlight*
speed
heroism
berserk strength
boldness
rheat
rcold
rpois
dragon breath

so, actually, *none* of the ones you mentioned are generated at dlevel 99. From the following list I would change
boldness: 1-20
rheat:1-50
rcold: 1-50
dragon breath: 10-50

the rest of them I want to be at dlevel 99.

edit: my post has been rendered useless.

[PowerDiver]

so, actually, *none* of the ones you mentioned are generated at dlevel 99. From the following list I would change
boldness: 1-20
rheat:1-50
rcold: 1-50
dragon breath: 10-50

Another warrior hater. If you don't want rHeat and rCold, just squelch them. The deeper you are, the more important they are. I'd rather see them 50-100 than 1-50.

[fizzix]

Another warrior hater. If you don't want rHeat and rCold, just squelch them. The deeper you are, the more important they are. I'd rather see them 50-100 than 1-50.

I wouldn't have included them if they weren't accessible in the stores. I'd also like them to be rheat+cold and relec+acid.

Although really, I'd like them to last about 2-3 times longer than they do. They should last twice as long as a level 50 resistance spell. But this isn't the point. Personally, I don't think there's a need for any change here, I was just commenting on what is usually junk for me by the time I reach dlevel 99.

[PowerDiver]

I wouldn't have included them if they weren't accessible in the stores.

The Game of Shopping strikes again. IMO stores should be viewed as a stopgap for when dungeon generation doesn't work properly. You shouldn't design dungeon generation based on store behavior.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

IMO stores should be viewed as a stopgap for when dungeon generation doesn't work properly. You shouldn't design dungeon generation based on store behavior.

Not IMO. The point of the stores is to stock basics that the dungeon *may not* provide consistently. In that sense, the stores fill an excellent, complementary role, and dungeon drops can and should consider what's in the stores.

Note that we can have a middle ground where the commonality of the stores' potions becomes 50 instead of 100. So it's not like they wouldn't be there, AND it's not like warriors would be doing without...the stores provide. If necessary, increase the counts available in the stores, so it's uncommon to get less than 6-8 per visit.

To me, you're holding every other class (who can cast the spells) hostage to the warrior's weaknesses...and really, as long as the stores keep decent stocks, we're only talking about no-return-to-town scenario warriors, because a warrior played with typical town use, won't have a problem.

Also: it's my understanding that squelching only stops the *display* of items. The useless, squelched item has still been created, instead of something useful. So it's not a solution to the problem at all.

[Derakon]

Why is it desirable that a player should be dependent on the stores for equipment? What does it add to the game? The only interesting decisions I can see happening are "Well, I want X and Y, but I can only afford one of them; which should I pick?" but in practice past the very early game this only happens with Black Market goods.

If players could get all the consumables they need from the dungeon, then the game would be objectively better, because they'd be wasting less time running around in the town and more time actually playing the game. Heck, we could replace Word of Recall with an effect that, after a short delay, heals you fully, grants access to your home, and then generates a new level. Wouldn't need a town at all.

[PowerDiver]

Also: it's my understanding that squelching only stops the *display* of items. The useless, squelched item has still been created, instead of something useful. So it's not a solution to the problem at all.

You are completely missing the point. To make up a number, suppose 5% of potions are resist heat. Then you can do either of 2 things which are basically equivalent in terms of healing potions. (1) keep the number of potions fixed and stop generating potions of resist heat or (2) increase the number of potions generated by a factor of 1/.95. Which solution you choose depends upon whether you hate warriors. No one else need notice.

[fizzix]

You are completely missing the point. To make up a number, suppose 5% of potions are resist heat. Then you can do either of 2 things which are basically equivalent in terms of healing potions. (1) keep the number of potions fixed and stop generating potions of resist heat or (2) increase the number of potions generated by a factor of 1/.95. Which solution you choose depends upon whether you hate warriors. No one else need notice.

(3) increase the amount of potions of rheat that are dropped in one instance.