Comp 229

[Philip]

In the sense that you would require to kill Sauron to get to dl100 and killing Sauron is arguably more impressive than not killing Sauron, I suppose. In general, though, it is quite easy to maximize max depth the moment you have semi-reliable detection. Also you'd start to have ties, and that would be very annoying. The current system effectively prevents ties. XP/turns has been the backup ranking for a long time, for good reason.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

On rare occasions, the ranking criteria are varied (e.g., the Hobbit that started wearing Sting, a Mithril Chainmail, and The One Ring - The winner was the victor with the lowest max experience, regardless of turncount. The idea was to see how low of a character level could win. It was a very fun comp, won by PowerWyrm, if I remember right, and was the first Angband comp I ever tried.) In any event, any special win criteria would be clearly stated on the comp page.

[wobbly]

So starting to itch a little to give some ...ah constructive criticism. But maybe I'll just start with the core question. Are people finding the early game on a blackguard to be fun?

[VeritasAequitas]

So starting to itch a little to give some ...ah constructive criticism. But maybe I'll just start with the core question. Are people finding the early game on a blackguard to be fun?

So im not a great player, but i have found the early game very difficult. Only been into double digit clvl a few times, and havent had anyone worthy to post to competition really.
Mostly when i play i play the "normal" classes that have something going for them, or a prescribed sort of playstyle.

Ranger, can shoot things.
Warrior can blast through most of the early game.
Mage has spells.
Holy classes have some healing.

It feels like im stuck in almost every way early game with blackguard. I just feel like i have no armour, no shooter, no spells, no healing and especially no damage.
Maybe im playing it wrong, but i dont remember the last time i played where ive had to run from grip and fang so many times

Hats off to you guys who have managed to turn the class into endgame territory

[Ingwe Ingweron]

So starting to itch a little to give some ...ah constructive criticism. But maybe I'll just start with the core question. Are people finding the early game on a blackguard to be fun?

No more difficult than some of the class/race combos we've had in these recent comps.

[Diego Gonzalez]

Big weapon, big shield, rings of reckless attack, elemental rings for activation, dragon armor, wands. I used that for my blackguard. Lots of phase door scrolls, CCW, staves of teleportation, magic maping. These are all vital tools. I really like how the classes in 4.2 can be played in many ways. The shapeshifts by example...

[Pete Mack]

But the race is *Dunadan*. That is usually easy to play, except for the lack of infravision. If Dunadan Blackguard is difficult, then the whole class is a bit out of balance.

No more difficult than some of the class/race combos we've had in these recent comps.

[malcontent]

So starting to itch a little to give some ...ah constructive criticism. But maybe I'll just start with the core question. Are people finding the early game on a blackguard to be fun?

Fun is not the word I would use. I feel like I'm playing a handicapped warrior. I'm at level 30 or so and the only spells I can cast reliably are basically bless, berserk strength, and scare monsters. There are not potions/devices that I usually equip much as a warrior. I will admit that forcing myself to evaluate these spells led to a face palm realization that berserk strength is a great cure for fear.

[Sphara]

I specifically asked Gwarl in angband.live to make Blackguard's competition race Dunadan because it is the hardest class to start.

Just like malcontent said, a weaker version of a warrior, that also has miserable stealth. It is very close to an early game for a Paladin. Blackguard does a little better damage than Paladin but quickly falls behind on several cases.
1) Paladin gets pretty early healing spell, Blackguards spells become relevant much later. And none of it's spells can match Minor Healing
2) Blackguard has that goddamn impaired regeneration
3) Paladin gets to take advantage of light weapons several attacks where Blackguard does not.

It's not 'harder than hard' challenge race, as it does even out IF you make it to stat gains. But only thing that I felt being weaker than Blackguard start was a Ranger that starts without a launcher.

[wobbly]

My experience was similar to malcontent's. I deliberately asked about fun rather then hard because hard can still be fun (or not) & any class can shoot or device blast its way into statgain. Playing a handicapped warrior is not something I enjoy much, whether I can get through it with tricks or not.

Warrior's game goes: light weapon, statgain, heavier weapon. Blackguard's game had the 1st part of that lopped off & I'm not sure what it has in its place. I actually support the idea of a heavy weapon warrior class, but just making light weapons bad doesn't exactly achieve that, in my opinion.

[DavidMedley]

At the risk of repeating myself, I also find Blackguard very boring. There's not much to keep your interest for quite a while. The stated levels that spells become available are incredibly optimistic. Even when you can cast Dark Focus (bless) it's very underwhelming compared to the priest/paladin version because of the cost (5 vs 2). In the mid or late 20s I could cast Poison Brand and that's been kinda fun since my main two weapons don't have much slay/brand.

Class definitely needs something signature for the first 20-30 levels.

[Pete Mack]

Poison brand spell is very powerful--one of the most powerful in the game-- but it is a looong time in coming. There is a painful dry spell up to that point. The class is a lot like ranger in this regard.

[DavidMedley]

The class is a lot like ranger in this regard

I don't see it. At least the Ranger is "the shooty guy" the whole way through. In fact, Rangers start with more (melee+shoot) skill than any class. What's the Blackguard's identity for 25 levels? "The no healy guy?"

[Diego Gonzalez]

I think blackguard is a little harder, but the bloodlust spell is kind of adictive

[wobbly]

Ok reached the fun part. So they have 2 massive power spikes, one where you get through stat-gain & get actual blows & another when book 2 comes on-line.