Comp 205

[Pete Mack]

I looked at the character, and decided no. It's just too tedious starting with bad CON and a lot of useless DEX for a full caster. (Melee is useless until you have reasonable HP.) It clearly uses the default starting stats, which shortchanges CON badly. For full casters, recommend using 16-17 STR/MAG (magic) and even DEX/CON for remaining points, favoring CON. For half casters, reverse DEX and MAG, favoring DEX. That'll keep everyone reasonably happy. Thus:

Class:      STR/DEX/CON/MAG
Warrior:     17/ 16/ 16/ 0*
Half-caster: 17/ 16/ 14/ 12*
Full-caster: 16/ 12/ 14/ 17

* or 16 STR, 17 DEX, if that gives better melee with a dagger.

It may be still need a bit of tweaking, but this is roughly right. (For rogue in particular, I really tend to ignore MAG stat.)

Thanks, very helpful. I actually have some plans to unnerf breaths a little, which I'll try to get in soon.

I also hope to actually play the comp...

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I looked at the character, and decided no. It's just too tedious starting with bad CON and a lot of useless DEX for a full caster. (Melee is useless until you have reasonable HP.) ....

It's a comp; it's supposed to be hard. Still, not as hard as the artifactless, forced-descent ranger Leon or the insane April Fool's Rocketband.

[Nick]

I looked at the character, and decided no. It's just too tedious starting with bad CON and a lot of useless DEX for a full caster. (Melee is useless until you have reasonable HP.) It clearly uses the default starting stats, which shortchanges CON badly. For full casters, recommend using 16-17 STR/MAG (magic) and even DEX/CON for remaining points, favoring CON. For half casters, reverse DEX and MAG, favoring DEX. That'll keep everyone reasonably happy. Thus:

Class:      STR/DEX/CON/MAG
Warrior:     17/ 16/ 16/ 0*
Half-caster: 17/ 16/ 14/ 12*
Full-caster: 16/ 12/ 14/ 17

* or 16 STR, 17 DEX, if that gives better melee with a dagger.

It may be still need a bit of tweaking, but this is roughly right. (For rogue in particular, I really tend to ignore MAG stat.)

So just to clarify, you're suggesting this as the default starting stat distribution? What do others think?

[Derakon]

So just to clarify, you're suggesting this as the default starting stat distribution? What do others think?

Looks reasonable to me. *shrug*

[Pete Mack]

Yes. This distribution is roughly optimal. You don't want to waste too many points on the extremes, except for the most critical stats.

So just to clarify, you're suggesting this as the default starting stat distribution? What do others think?

[Pete Mack]

Sure. But I'd like the challenge to be a matter of intent, not accident.

It's a comp; it's supposed to be hard. Still, not as hard as the artifactless, forced-descent ranger Leon or the insane April Fool's Rocketband.

[debo]

Sure. But I'd like the challenge to be a matter of intent, not accident.

I'm curious about the constitution thing. Usually casters in angband can melee okay if you give them a bunch of combat stats, which means you don't sit around forever in the early game waiting for your 3sp or whatever to regen. (I've always felt casters should start with much more SP.)

But putting points into early con... I've just never understood it. It does almost nothing for you early game, and I've always felt that statgain in vanilla is so fast and you have gobs of +Con arts that who cares? Also if you're going to be a pure caster, it feels like it would super not matter because nothing is hitting you.

I don't mind being point-ineffecient at birth because the early game sucks so bad in these games that it seems better to be viable at one thing at the start. By midgame you have more options that you can work with, as long as your offense stats are there.

Anyways, I'd be happy to see the default allocations change, but the selection in this comp wasn't an accident. I looked at it and figured this is probably how I would roughly play it.

[wobbly]

I'd probably even split dex/con on a priest on the grounds that neither are going to mater that much till I've been in stat gain for a bit. Chances are your weapons to heavy to get any extra blows with out a ton of !dex unless you find a thanc or forasgil & just ignore the pointy. Just about any wand off the ground is going to be better then your melee or grabbing a wand of wonder/stinking cloud/mm from the magic shop. I understand Pete's point a lot more if we're talking about a mage.

Otherwise I found the allocation just fine & could melee trash mobs around the point protection from evil & a bunch of AC started working.

[debo]

I'd probably even split dex/con on a priest on the grounds that neither are going to mater that much till I've been in stat gain for a bit. Chances are your weapons to heavy to get any extra blows with out a ton of !dex unless you find a thanc or forasgil & just ignore the pointy. Just about any wand off the ground is going to be better then your melee or grabbing a wand of wonder/stinking cloud/mm from the magic shop. I understand Pete's point a lot more if we're talking about a mage.

Otherwise I found the allocation just fine & could melee trash mobs around the point protection from evil & a bunch of AC started working.

I think whips are pretty common blunt weapon and get a lot of blows? I'd expect that to be a reliable weapon for a priest until spells kick in.

[wobbly]

I think whips are pretty common blunt weapon and get a lot of blows? I'd expect that to be a reliable weapon for a priest until spells kick in.

Testing with a start character half-orc priest comp allocation. Whip 1 blow, +1 str or +2 dex to get to 1.1. It's still not going to impress without being a very good whip.

[Pete Mack]

The original default was to dump everything in DEX, which doesn't affect magic devices and only helps archery a limited amount. Whether the CON/DEX split is 14/12 vs 13/13 is relatively immaterial. Either is better than the tedious 0/16. I'd prefer to be comfortably above 266HP not too long after Drolem depth.

I'd probably even split dex/con on a priest on the grounds that neither are going to matter that much till I've been in stat gain for a bit. Chances are your weapons to heavy to get any extra blows with out a ton of !dex unless you find a thanc or forasgil & just ignore the pointy. Just about any wand off the ground is going to be better then your melee or grabbing a wand of wonder/stinking cloud/mm from the magic shop. I understand Pete's point a lot more if we're talking about a mage.

Otherwise I found the allocation just fine & could melee trash mobs around the point protection from evil & a bunch of AC started working.

[Estie]

I go 12 str 8 dex for non-casters and 12 mag 8 str for casters. Con does next to nothing in the early game.

[wobbly]

So still on 736-ga6a82bf, recalled straight to dlvl 99 searched the level Sauron is not there. Cast Alter Reality, he's still not on the level, will try going up then back down again soon. What kind of evil sorceror doesn't turn up to his own death party?

Edit: < then > worked

[bron]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but here are a few issues I've had with the nightly. I downloaded the version I'm using on 15May2017. It identifies itself as angband-a6a82bf45846155e267b0a54e8ddbcb04e8bc47f

1) I have a weapon of Extra-Attacks in my inventory, but I do not yet know the Rune of attack speed. If I 'I'nspect the weapon before I wield it, the "blows per round" number is nevertheless reported factoring in the extra attacks (i.e. even before I know the Rune).

2) If an ego object with an unknown rune is in a store, the name of the ego is given. If an object with an unknown rune is in my home, the ego name is *not* given. This is clearly the correct behaviour. However, if i 'l'ook at the object in my home, the extended description *does* give the ego name. (e.g. "Mace of Slay Dragon", or "Iron Helm of Night and Day", even without knowing the relevant rune(s).)

3) I have an object with multiple curses in my inventory. I now remove one of the curses. The 'cursed' flag is removed, and if I cast Remove Curse again, I am told that I don't have any cursed items. If I then drop the item on the floor, the {cursed} flag comes back, and I can now attempt to remove another one of the curses from the item.

4) Vorticies are affected by the "poison" brand. Since they are non-living, it seems as if they should be immune to poisoning.

5) I set the option to report the amount of damage my blows do to the monsters. If I throw something at a monster (i.e. 'v') instead of 'f'ire something, the game does not report the damage done by the thrown object.

6) The splash page still says "4.0.5" rather than "4.1 alpha" (or whatever).

[Nick]

So still on 736-ga6a82bf, recalled straight to dlvl 99 searched the level Sauron is not there. Cast Alter Reality, he's still not on the level, will try going up then back down again soon. What kind of evil sorceror doesn't turn up to his own death party?

Edit: < then > worked

Yeah, I think I've seen something like this too. Will investigate.