*Aquirement*

[Big Al]

For the most part, deeper means after div 10. Not much diff between reading at 30 and 39, but a noticeable diff between 39 and 40.

Is this true for "normal" item drops as well? Stuff on the ground and/or monster drops?

[PowerDiver]

Is this true for "normal" item drops as well? Stuff on the ground and/or monster drops?

Well, in a sense. First you average the monster level with the dungeon level. No real change until the average reaches a multiple of 10. I guess there are a few things at multiples of 5, but not so many, and very few artifacts.

[Patashu]

Speaking of acquirement... isn't it somewhat pointless to implement a rare item whose only use is to disappear and create a different rare item? I suppose there's limited gameplay utility in that you must protect a scroll from fire and acid before you can read it... but it still seems redundant. Why not just create the final product to begin with?

Ah, but it's a 'delayed' rate item; the deeper you can read it the better it gets.

[takkaria]

Well, in a sense. First you average the monster level with the dungeon level. No real change until the average reaches a multiple of 10. I guess there are a few things at multiples of 5, but not so many, and very few artifacts.

V-dev changes this calculation to MAX(monster level, player depth). So these breakpoints should be reduced. (see revision 1018)

[Pete Mack]

Aha, I was wondering what nerfed V monster drops, and have had several possibly false beliefs. This is probably the root cause: now there is essentially 0
Chance of stat potions from Orc or troll pits at any depth, never mind from random groups of novices. The same holds for any number of utility items. In all other variants, diving pays because the monsters that are killable at you character power have better drops the deeper you go. Without this, diving doesn't pay.

Vanilla angband, we hardly knew ye.

[takkaria]

Aha, I was wondering what nerfed V monster drops, and have had several possibly false beliefs. This is probably the root cause: now there is essentially 0
Chance of stat potions from Orc or troll pits at any depth, never mind from random groups of novices. The same holds for any number of utility items. In all other variants, diving pays because the monsters that are killable at you character power have better drops the deeper you go. Without this, diving doesn't pay.

Vanilla angband, we hardly knew ye.

The main cause of V having nerfed drops was simply making DROP_GREAT on monsters a no-op. When that's restored, I imagine you'll find it significantly different. (also, V-dev should have about 1% of all drops in the later dungeon be stat potions, so I'd hardly call that 0 chance.)

[PowerDiver]

This is probably the root cause: now there is essentially 0
Chance of stat potions from Orc or troll pits at any depth,

Did you perhaps confuse max with min?

The only reason deep orcs in dev should be less likely to drop stat potions than dLevel 30 orcs is that they are more likely to be dropping deep items like !LIFE instead. Or were you talking about something else?

[Pete Mack]

Yes I confused max with min. D'oh!

What this also means is that dl 30 is now the best place for stat gain, rather than dl 60-novice mages dropping stat potions with no additional risk.

[Eamonite]

Does it matter what level you found the scroll of Acquirement on? I ask because I bought a scroll off the black market (way too much gold on my hands), dove to DL 98, and all i got was a potion of Healing. Thought that was strange. Tried it again, got another potion of Healing.

Then again, my last 4 drops from Smeagol have been 22 (non-enchanted) rounded pebbles, nothing, a small amount of gold, and nothing.

[rdermyer]

I do not believe that it matters where you got it, just where you read it.

[Zikke]

I see it as an "artifact lottery".

But it's one of those lotteries at your 5th grade soccer team banquet where even if you lose you still get a crappy consolation prize that just makes you feel worse.

[Baru]

Couple of things I have discovered. There is a difference between " a scroll of acquirement " and " a scroll of *acquirement* " but more then that I have discovered everything in the game that is random is based off of the turn number, so if you were to use your scroll at depth 2500 on turn 1,000,000,000 you would get a different item then if you use the scroll on turn 1,000,000,001. So if you are morally ok with "skimming" or "Farming" it is possible to get better items depending on the time you are willing to give. Yes a scroll of *acquirement* has better items and drops 3 items instead of one.

[Pete Mack]

A scroll of *Acquirement* drops 1-4 "GREAT" items at depth dl+10, while Acquirement only drops 1. There was a long spell in which "great" was nerfed. Otherwise, there's no difference between the two.

[pampl]

Ah, that's very interesting info about item drop formula. It seems like a mechanic that's prone to being gamed: to get good items you're best off killing the weakest stuff you can find, excepting the loot pinata monsters like ancient dragons. On the other hand, it means fighting is more rewarding relative to scampering around grabbing stuff off the floor. I'm going to have to pay more attention to drops to figure out if I like this or not.

I do like the game mechanic of having scrolls of *acquirement* instead of just directly giving a good object. It's more reward for trying to clear a vault out without damaging its contents, as opposed to blasting it with Destruction and Earthquakes from safety then collecting all the artifacts.