v4 - a few characters

[Derakon]

Well, you missed my point, IMHO HP is just a model parameter, not something, adventurer can wonder about, adventurer just hit orc 3 times and orc dies, no hp no damage, no dice, etc. all this is just a part of a computer model. In other words I dont care too much about how things are modelled, if an orc dies in 3 hits, anything else does not matter (e.g. dwarf fortress game has a very complicated model), and I dont need any numbers to figure out, that one weapon kill orc in 3 hits, while another takes 5 hits, and so make a decision, that first one is better.

You still have the issue of entities being equally dangerous when they're clearly mostly dead (at one star of health) as they are when they're at full health. Even if you can't observe the exact HP of the enemy (and hint, you can), you can observe how badly hurt they are. In a realistic world that hurt would have ramifications; it doesn't in Angband.

Bottom line is, we either have an imperfect model or a perfect model of an imperfect world.

[LostTemplar]

Well, I am not talking about imperfection in the model, it can never be completely perfect, but it is very easy to add some function of (hp/mhp) value to all combat stats, also any other similar things can be corrected if needed, but since this is a game, and action takes place in a fantasy world, I dont see this as a problem, orcs can be immune to pain, and just die if they are no longer capable to fight.

However it is completely impossible to write a computer program without numbers, we simply have to represent anything by numbers, but I doubt this means that we have to say, that our characters are living in some numerical world, there are many (computer) games, that does not show any model numbers to player (allmost any 3d shooter have much more complicated physical model then any roguelike have, but all numbers you see are percent of hp and ammo count). However if you insist, that angband characters live and act in the numerical word it is OK, but you need more numbers then, and all model equations be described in the game for consistency.

[buzzkill]

All this numbers, e. g. damage dice, hitpoints, etc. are only parameters of the model, in real life they does not exist, so the only real number, that characterise a weapon effectiveness is how many hits it takes to kill an average orc, or something like this.

IIRC, Brogue describes damage in a similar way. "You can kill this enemy in as few as 2 hits, and it could kill you in as few as 4", or something like that. Although I'm firmly in the "show me the numbers" camp, I never found Brogue's system lacking. However, Brogue's whole weapon/combat structure is way simpler than Angband's, so it probably wouldn't translate well.