Doh! [Vanilla 3.05]

[NoSurrender]

"You have a superb feeling about this level."

That's always a fun message to see isn't it? At least once your past the point of jelly pits generating them.

So I saw that message at dungeon level 76. And I was happy.

There was Kronos in one vault. There was another minor vault with some Wyrms and Demons. And finally there was a graveyard.

Now a little note about my inventory management style before I go on. I'm a borderline hoarder in real life, and in Angband I'm worse. Deciding what to get rid of I find the most dreadful process in Angband. So much so I've designed sophisticated spreadsheets to help make it a more analytical process, so I can be more at peace decisions to part with artifacts and the occasional super-duper ego item (like my Mace of Disruption of Two Extra Attacks).

I also have a play style that is somewhat at odds with winning the game. I compulsively kill all the monsters on the level, even if the risk/reward is terrible (I'm looking at you Undead Beholder). In my current game, I have yet to 1) teleport other 2) use a scroll of banishment or 3) use a scroll of mass banishment.

So if you are going to take on every Great Wyrm and every Demon, then it is worthwhile to have most high resistances covered. So combining my play style with inventory management style, I end up cramming my house full of different possible combinations of armor, shields, amulets, etc.

I make room for only one non-equipment object: Potions of Life. However, I take all Potions of Healing and *Healing* with me into the dungeon.

At the start of my "superb" level 76, my hobbit rogue had saved up to 12 Potions of *Healing*, though I was starting to run a little low on Potions of Healing (just 5 left). So what I do is this: the first room I find after killing the monsters, I deposit my Potions of *Healing*, extra ammunition, and extra scrolls (Protection from Evil and Prayer). I've been doing this for a very long time, and as long as I have Resist Nexus and am super careful detecting traps, I'm golden.

I took on Kronos first. I won't lie. He was a pain. He summoned Greater Titans on three different occasions. I ended up having to use 2 of my Potions of healing. But in the end I got the job done. Now there huge piles of loot. I pseudo-IDed everything. I tend to keep anything worth more than 1K gold pieces. I compulsively like to collect as much gold as possible too, and I compulsively arrange my loot when I finish a dungeon and enter it into a spreadsheet and sort it to figure what to sell back in the town. Yes, I know I'm insane. With 20/20 hindsight, I need to raise that 1K number to 5K or 10K.

Then I took on the vault--it was overall a piece of cake. I think I had a Pit Fiend summon some Lesser Balrogs, but it wasn't a big deal. But again a fair amount of loot.

Then I took on the graveyard. The graveyard had a lot of Elder Vampires (at least 10), Archliches (at least 10), and Dreadlords (at least 10). There were a handful of Nether Wraiths and Dreads as well. Things were dandy until one of them summoned greater undead. That brought Khamul, 3 Nightwalkers, 2 Nightcrawlers, and an undead beholder. So that took some time and some tactics to take down that crowd (some of whom summoned their own undead). So eventually, there was just stuff everywhere around the graveyard. And anytime I tried to get to some of it to ID it or destroy the trash, another Archlich/Elder Vampire/Dreadlord would come through the walls.

At some point, I got a message that made me wish I was playing a more recent version of Angband... "Compacting objects..." I knew that wasn't good, since it meant a lot of my shiny swords and armors that I like to line up elegantly at the end of the level were going to go <poof>. It wasn't until the last of the twelve druj was dead that I realized exactly what was gone...

Yep. My twelve Potions of *Healing* had gone <poof> as well as all my scrolls of prayer (which are at least fairly replaceable).

Well at least I got some interesting artifacts: Anduril, Belthronding, Angrist, and Anguirel. I'm definitely keeping Belthronding. Anduril is a maybe (it could replace Mattock of Nain at my house). But Angrist and Anguirel won't make the cut.

But those potions... ugh... ugh... To make matters worse I only have one Potion of Healing left.

[Derakon]

The *Healing* shouldn't be gone gone. They should just be merged with another stack of *Healing* potions somewhere else on the level. The game tries to combine like objects into a single stack before it outright destroys items, and when it does destroy stuff it starts with the crappier items. If I recall correctly.

Anyway, congrats on taking down such a thoroughly-populated level!

[NoSurrender]

No. They are gone gone. I've completed my tidy treasure arranging. There are no Potions of *Healing* anywhere... A lot of equipment items in the 2K - 5K range disappeared too, while some wands like Drain Life worth only 1K were not trashed.

If I have time, I will look in the source code to see if considers quantity (I think it probably does) as 12 Potion of *Healing* are worth a decent amount I believe.

I suppose there is an outside chance that they got crushed by a Xaren...

[ekolis]

I also have a play style that is somewhat at odds with winning the game. I compulsively kill all the monsters on the level, even if the risk/reward is terrible (I'm looking at you Undead Beholder).

Don't the monsters respawn? How do you ever make it past DL1?

[fizzix]

If there are too many items on the level you can get them removed. This usually only happens when the game can't find any legal squares to drop an item (a room full of open doors), but I'm guessing it can happen with large vaults on levels.

I'm not sure how this worked in 3.0.5, but it's certainly different than it is now in 3.3 because of the inability to actually destroy items.

[Derakon]

Presumably the modern object compaction routine first removes squelched items.

Of course, there are also massively fewer items on any given level in 3.2+ than in 3.0x, because insufficiently-good items are simply not generated now.

[NoSurrender]

Don't the monsters respawn? How do you ever make it past DL1?

Well my definition of clearing the dungeon is as follows:

1) I've explored every nook and cranny of the dungeon.

2) I've killed every monster I've seen (or in some cases not seen but have evidence of their presence ).

I realize there are respawned monsters elsewhere. In fact, I have to take on a fair number of respawned monsters as I organize all the treasure. This can be annoying in the mid-game when a Poltergeist runs away. And yes if it escapes from me, I'm crazy enough that I tunnel after it to hunt it down.

[fizzix]

Well my definition of clearing the dungeon is as follows:

1) I've explored every nook and cranny of the dungeon.

2) I've killed every monster I've seen (or in some cases not seen but have evidence of their presence ).

I realize there are respawned monsters elsewhere. In fact, I have to take on a fair number of respawned monsters as I organize all the treasure. This can be annoying in the mid-game when a Poltergeist runs away. And yes if it escapes from me, I'm crazy enough that I tunnel after it to hunt it down.

Would you appreciate a in-game message to tell you when you've explored (almost) the entire dungeon as a sort of reward?

[NoSurrender]

Would you appreciate a in-game message to tell you when you've explored (almost) the entire dungeon as a sort of reward?

That would be a nice feature.

[Jay]

I also have a play style that is somewhat at odds with winning the game. I compulsively kill all the monsters on the level, even if the risk/reward is terrible (I'm looking at you Undead Beholder). In my current game, I have yet to 1) teleport other 2) use a scroll of banishment or 3) use a scroll of mass banishment.

This sounds a lot like my natural, intuitive approach to playing. I want to check out every nook and cranny of every level and kill everything, just because there's always the chance you'll find something really cool. It can be fun that way -- you put yourself in the character's shoes and take it all in, making the most of the experience. Every time I've won, I've either killed all the uniques or come just one or two short.

I've actually been trying to change it up lately, though. Games can take forever if I play that way, for one thing, but mainly I'm starting to recognize the challenge -- and the beauty, I suppose -- of a game where I dive quickly, ride my luck a bit, and hope the right items are there when I need them.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, "Hey! Look at that — there's some other nut out there who plays like I do." (I, too, have made spreadsheets detailing the resistances items in my house offer, for example, so that I can maximize my flexibility going forward.) So hi there, and good luck replenishing your supply of !healing and !*healing*.

[NoSurrender]

This sounds a lot like my natural, intuitive approach to playing. I want to check out every nook and cranny of every level and kill everything, just because there's always the chance you'll find something really cool. It can be fun that way -- you put yourself in the character's shoes and take it all in, making the most of the experience. Every time I've won, I've either killed all the uniques or come just one or two short.

I'm not alone!

I've actually been trying to change it up lately, though. Games can take forever if I play that way, for one thing, but mainly I'm starting to recognize the challenge -- and the beauty, I suppose -- of a game where I dive quickly, ride my luck a bit, and hope the right items are there when I need them.

I've tried to play this way, but I find it more challenging because I'm still thinking about what I might have missed on the last level instead of the pair of Dracoliches in front of me breathing nether.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, "Hey! Look at that — there's some other nut out there who plays like I do." (I, too, have made spreadsheets detailing the resistances items in my house offer, for example, so that I can maximize my flexibility going forward.) So hi there, and good luck replenishing your supply of !healing and !*healing*.

Thanks. I'm up to a grand total of 1 Potion of *Healing* and 2 Potions of Healing. I'm equipped with Elessar and I have a Staff of Healing to help compensate... But potions can't be beat for that 0 failure rate.

[Derakon]

I've tried to play this way, but I find it more challenging because I'm still thinking about what I might have missed on the last level instead of the pair of Dracoliches in front of me breathing nether.

I used to worry about that a lot -- I didn't want to miss anything, because after I left the level it would be gone forever. But then I realized that the chances of me finding an amazing item by clearing 100% of level X are basically identical to the chances of me finding an amazing item by clearing 50% each of levels X and X + 1 (or even just rerunning 50% of level X again). Sure, sometimes I'd miss out on something, but I could easily make up for that through greater throughput -- it takes less than half the time to explore the most interesting 50% of a level than it does to explore 100% of the level.

Which isn't to say that I'm calculating percentages as I play; more that I usually don't poke into every nook and cranny. I won't say you're wrong for playing the way you do though. Whatever floats your boat.

[NoSurrender]

I used to worry about that a lot -- I didn't want to miss anything, because after I left the level it would be gone forever. But then I realized that the chances of me finding an amazing item by clearing 100% of level X are basically identical to the chances of me finding an amazing item by clearing 50% each of levels X and X + 1 (or even just rerunning 50% of level X again). Sure, sometimes I'd miss out on something, but I could easily make up for that through greater throughput -- it takes less than half the time to explore the most interesting 50% of a level than it does to explore 100% of the level.

Yes I'm aware that this is the case. And then in my case, the logical side of my brain and the irrational side get into a debate about it, and the next thing I know I'm looking at a grave stone. :/ When it doesn't matter that much, you can cave into the irrational and still remain an effective Angband player...