Newbie vs. Shelob (Result: Shelob 1, Newbie 0)

[Egavactip]

My first game of Angband ended unexpectedly today. I had messed around a bit with Moria in the early 1990s on my Amiga, nothing but dabbling, and this was the first time I had tried Angband (or any such game since my Moria experience). I didn't bother to do any studying up on Angband or anything before I plunged in, so I only knew what the game was telling me.

I created a Dunadan Paladin and gradually worked him up to Level 28. I thought I was doing pretty good. I was also down to Level 28/1400 feet on the dungeon.

This morning, however, I encountered what subsequent research now informs me was my first "Greater Vault." Because it was the first time I had ever seen a rock-enclosed area, I knew it was something special and probably dangerous. Inside was a bunch of nastiness, including a unique, Shelob, which of course I had never seen before.

I was doing a decent job of fighting the horde, and had wailed on Shelob a bit, but was getting dangerous low on hit points, so I teleported away to heal up and go back and clean up the room. I did so, but upon my return to the vault, Shelob almost immediately breathed on my and to my shock I was instantly dead with like -500 hit points or so.

Thus ended my first character, with a stunned frozen-in-carbonite look on his face. I also possessed that look.

Subsequent research told me what vaults were, and also what Shelob was. I was surprised to discover that Shelob was normally only found around level 50 of the dungeon, and here she was at level 28.

I guess my question is, with greater vaults, is it common that monsters from THAT deep a level would be there? I thought I might be fighting something too tough for me and that I might have to give up the fight, but I never thought I would be fighting something that could kill me three times over with a single attack.

I am attaching my character file if anybody has any advice for me regarding character building, items, etc.

Name Jack Straight Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 65 Str: 18/49 +1 +3 +1 18/99 18/69
Race Dunadan Height 86 Int: 10 +2 -3 +4 13 12
Class Paladin Weight 206 WIS: 17 +2 +1 +0 18/20
Title Knight Social Well-liked Dex: 17 +2 +0 +0 18/10 18
HP -541/259 Maximize Y CON: 14 +3 +2 +1 18/20
SP 18/47 CHR: 11 +2 +2 +0 15

Level 28 Armor [52,+76] Saving Throw 63%
Cur Exp 100363 Fight (+12,+16) Stealth Very Good
Max Exp 101471 Melee (+27,+31) Fighting Heroic
Adv Exp 107500 Shoot (+21,+18) Shooting Superb
MaxDepth 1400' (L28) Blows 3.3/turn Disarming 43%
Game Turns 1701054 Shots 1/turn Magic Device 57
Standard Turns 160567 Infra 80 ft Perception 1 in 10
Resting Turns 3232 Speed 3 Searching 40%
Gold 7133 Burden 183.6 lbs

You are one of several children of a Townsman. You are a credit to
the family. You have dark brown eyes, straight auburn hair, and a
dark complexion.


rAcid:............. Nexus:.............
rElec:............. Nethr:.............
rFire:+.....+...... Chaos:.............
rCold:............. Disen:.............
rPois:............. Feath:+............
rLite:+............ pFear:.............
rDark:............. pBlnd:.............
Sound:............. pConf:.............
Shard:............. pStun:.............

Light:+....+....... Tunn.:.............
Regen:............. Speed:+............
ESP:............. Blows:.............
Invis:+............ Shots:.............
FrAct:......+...... Might:.............
HLife:............. S.Dig:.............
Stea.:.......+..... ImpHP:.............
Sear.:....+........ Fear:.............
Infra:+.....+...... Aggrv:.............


[Last Messages]

> The Bandit misses you.
> You burn the Bandit.
> You have slain the Bandit.
> You have found 38 gold pieces worth of copper.
> You no longer feel safe from evil.
> You see 2 Scrolls of Blessing.
> You have 2 Scrolls of Blessing (h).
> There is a wall in the way!
> You feel righteous!
> You have a Scroll of Blessing (h).
> You failed to concentrate hard enough!
> You burn the King cobra.
> You have slain the King cobra.
> Shelob, Spider of Darkness breathes poison.
> You die.

Killed by Shelob, Spider of Darkness.

[Character Equipment]

a) the Spear of Orome (4d6) (+15,+15) <+4>
Conjured forth by magic at 1250 feet (level 25).

+4 intelligence, infravision, speed.
Slays animals, giants.
Branded with flames.
Provides resistance to fire, light.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Blessed by the gods. Feather Falling. Grants the ability to see
invisible things.

When aimed, it turns rock into mud.
Takes 6 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 92.6%

Combat info:
3.3 blows/round.
With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 3.4 blows
With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 3.5 blows
Average damage/round: 203.7 vs. animals, 252.7 vs. giants, 252.7
vs. creatures not resistant to fire, and 154.8 vs. others.

Radius 1 light.
b) a Light Crossbow of Power (x3) (+9,+18)
Dropped by a Moaning spirit at 1300 feet (level 26).



c) a Ring of Protection [+14]
Bought from a store.



d) a Ring of Damage (+0,+13)
Dropped by an Uruk at 1350 feet (level 27).



e) an Amulet of Searching <+5>
Found lying on the floor at 550 feet (level 11).

+25% to searching.

f) a Lantern of Brightness (7243 turns)
Dropped by a Black naga at 500 feet (level 10).

Cannot be harmed by fire.

Radius 3 light.
g) Red Dragon Scale Mail (Dwarven) (-2) [24,+29] <+1, +4>
Dropped by a Gnome mage at 1350 feet (level 27).

+1 strength, constitution.
+4 infravision.
Provides resistance to fire.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Prevents paralysis.

h) a Fur Cloak of Stealth [3,+8] <+2>
Bought from a store.

+2 stealth.

i) a Leather Shield [8,+5]
Bought from a store.



j) an Iron Helm [7,+7]
Bought from a store.



k) a Set of Gauntlets [3,+5]
Bought from a store.



l) a Pair of Steel Shod Boots [7,+1]
Dropped by Boldor, King of the Yeeks at 1050 feet (level 21).

Cannot be harmed by fire.



[Character Quiver]

n) 27 Bolts (1d5) (+2,+2)
Bought from a store.

Combat info:
Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
Average damage/round: 70.3.
25% chance of breaking upon contact.

o) 48 Bolts (1d5) (+5,+4)
Bought from a store.

Combat info:
Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
Average damage/round: 76.5.
25% chance of breaking upon contact.

p) 5 Bolts (1d5) (+4,+2)
Bought from a store.

Combat info:
Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
Average damage/round: 70.3.
25% chance of breaking upon contact.

q) (nothing)
r) (nothing)
s) (nothing)
t) (nothing)
u) (nothing)
v) (nothing)
w) (nothing)


[Character Inventory]

a) a Holy Book of Prayers [Chants and Blessings]


b) a Holy Book of Prayers [Ethereal Openings]
Dropped by a Scout at 850 feet (level 17).

Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

c) 5 Rations of Food


d) 5 Flasks of oil
Branded with flames.

e) 21 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds


f) a Scroll of Mass Banishment
Dropped by a Gnome mage at 1350 feet (level 27).



g) 8 Scrolls of Word of Recall


h) a Scroll of Blessing
Dropped by a Spirit naga at 1400 feet (level 28).



i) a Rod of Treasure Location
Dropped by a Snaga at 600 feet (level 12).



j) a Rod of Door/Stair Location


k) a Rod of Frost Bolts
Dropped by a Shadow at 1350 feet (level 27).



l) a Rod of Curing


m) a Wand of Teleport Other (7 charges)
Dropped by a Vampire at 1400 feet (level 28).



n) a Staff of Slow Monsters (9 charges)
Dropped by a Spirit naga at 1400 feet (level 28).



o) 2 Staves of Teleportation (12 charges)


p) a Staff of Identify (0 charges)
Found lying on the floor at 1400 feet (level 28).



q) a Cloak of Stealth [1,+2] <+1>
Dropped by a Dark elven druid at 1400 feet (level 28).

+1 stealth.

r) an Iron Crown [0,+2]
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1400 feet (level 28).



s) a Set of Gauntlets [3,+3]
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1400 feet (level 28).



t) a Trident of Slay Undead (1d10) (+3,+8)
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1400 feet (level 28).

Slays undead.

Combat info:
2.3 blows/round.
With +1 STR and +0 DEX you would get 2.7 blows
With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 2.7 blows
Average damage/round: 98.7 vs. undead, and 71.6 vs. others.

u) a Battle Axe (2d8) (+6,+3)
Found lying on the floor at 1400 feet (level 28).

Combat info:
1.3 blows/round.
With +3 STR and +0 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 1.6 blows
Average damage/round: 38.7.

v) a Mace (2d4) (+6,+3)
Dropped by a Banshee at 1400 feet (level 28).

Combat info:
1.6 blows/round.
With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 2.0 blows
Average damage/round: 40.8.

[Nick]

I guess my question is, with greater vaults, is it common that monsters from THAT deep a level would be there? I thought I might be fighting something too tough for me and that I might have to give up the fight, but I never thought I would be fighting something that could kill me three times over with a single attack.

Monsters in greater vaults can be up to 40 levels out of depth - so Shelob wasn't too surprising here. Nor is dying on your first greater vault

Note too that poison breath will do 1/3 of the monster's hitpoints in damage, up to a maximum of 800, and poison resistance is hard to come by early on. In fact, the only elements with a higher damage cap (1600) are the "basic" elements - Acid, Fire, Cold and Electricity; since you only had resistance to one of these, your death could have been a lot worse...

Aside from that, you had a pretty good character. You would probably have wanted protection from blindness and confusion before too long.

One small forum tip, too - enclosing your dump in code tags (use the # button on the post editor) will make it display nicely. Or you can post to the ladder - there's a tab at the top of the page.

[Egavactip]

Nick, thanks for the info. I didn't know that Angband had such a thing as "out of level" monsters, so I had no idea what I was walking into!

I saw something somewhere which suggested that rings of protection (I had a ring of protection +14) are not that useful and something that provides protection "from" would be better. Is that true?

[Derakon]

Armor class makes you marginally harder to hit, and take marginally less damage from "basic" attacks (ones without elements or special effects attached to them, more or less). But it's pretty damn marginal especially for the values you get from Rings of Protection. You'll notice a difference if you go from wearing soft leather armor to full plate armor, but you won't notice the difference from wearing that ring.

The king of the heap for young melee characters is the Ring of Damage. More damage means monsters die faster means you take less damage from their attacks. You want to be wearing two of those, ideally, but if you have rings that will more directly keep you from dying (particularly, a Ring of Free Action if you have no other source of FA) then of course you wear them instead.

[Narvius]

That's a rule I've learned the hard way recently: If something has a name, and you have never seen it before? Assume it can make three steps around the corner and then kill you with one shot, all within one round*.

* Slight exaggeration detected.

Seriously, though. You can, using the 'l'ook command in conjunction with the 'r'ecall subcommand, see the stats of any monsters you look at. Most information is hidden until you learn it, but native depth is always a public information and a great way to gauge your chances.

[LostTemplar]

Sometimes monsters can kill, even in Vanilla.

[ghengiz]

Sometimes monsters can kill, even in Vanilla.

I used to think that basically everything that moves, and also something that doesn't (traps, immobile monsters), in Vanilla and variants is doing its best to try to kill you... May you elaborate on your tought, please? I'm sure I'm missing something O_o

[LostTemplar]

May you elaborate on your tought, please?

Angband is too easy.

[buzzkill]

Assume it can make three steps around the corner and then kill you with one shot, all within one round*.

That's just jibber-jabber.

[Nick]

Angband is too easy.

Win the comp then, smartie

[LostTemplar]

The Mage tries to cast a spell, but fails.

Last time I played Vanilla there were no such messages.