320 stair failure

[PowerDiver]

I was thinking about using stairs like portals that dissipate once you step out of it. That was you have a "stairs" to back up to previous level, but can't abuse it. Might be difficult to code though (you don't want all of those to dissipate if you step on them but not use them).

Connected stairs is what makes no sense. Hounds would follow you. Counting arguments show that horizontal distances from DL98 to DL99 are so far you would starve on the path. Etc.

What we call stairs are like the transportation stations in star trek. Connected vs disconnected is just whether the destination needs to be another transit station. Monsters can't follow you because the stations reset after use. This viewpoint is much more consistent with gameplay than anything akin to "stairs" or "twisty paths" or whathaveyou.

[dos350]

please , im not caring wat u accept me as, and if u read again u will see im not telling anyone to stair scum, eee, please im just trying to show an example of a bad attitude that i think is strong with the angband community.. i am not insulting anyone , please, no rage...

i stair scum .. i dont care if others do, but i think its wrong for those who dont to look down on those who do, and especially wrong to try and eliminate it all together when it doesnt effect them anyway.. like, u can NOT stair scum if u want right?? so why talk of making new defaults etc, very unneeded..

but please i think ive said this same thing .. in every post in this thread, except it has gone more overboard with each reply, people seem misunderstand what im saying and protesting against..

please, no rage, hooo~

[buzzkill]

Connected stairs aren't going anywhere, so sadly, neither is stair scumming. The practice has been around for as nearly as long as Angband has so you need not worry about it's removal. Even if stair scumming was somehow restricted, there are still countless variants and the current (and older) versions of Vanilla that would still allow it.

If you, dos, would stop insisting upon stair scumming, everyone else would simply let it be.

[dos350]

please!!!!!!!!! im not insisting on anything, i think ALMOST everyone who has replied here has missed my point entirely~ eeee

[Starhawk]

So... how exactly does one define stairscumming, anyway?

I ask this because I am a poor Angband player and lose a lot of characters, thus I find myself playing CL 1-15 on a regular and monotonous basis.

I used to clear every room of every level, unless I was forced to flee. But I got tired of the monotony and decided to take a page from the players here who advocate "diving."

So I quit clearing "boring" levels and used stairs quite often, usually after only a quarter of the level was cleared -- unless I found interesting monsters, uniques, or a nice level feeling.

Am I stairscumming?

[Timo Pietilä]

So... how exactly does one define stairscumming, anyway?

I ask this because I am a poor Angband player and lose a lot of characters, thus I find myself playing CL 1-15 on a regular and monotonous basis.

I used to clear every room of every level, unless I was forced to flee. But I got tired of the monotony and decided to take a page from the players here who advocate "diving."

So I quit clearing "boring" levels and used stairs quite often, usually after only a quarter of the level was cleared -- unless I found interesting monsters, uniques, or a nice level feeling.

Am I stairscumming?

No. stairscumming is a method of staying close to stairs at all times going repeatedly up and down until you have something interesting in view, grab it and continue until you find another stairs in view, take them, repeat ad nauseam.

Basically two cases when you leave stairs

1) something interesting in immediate nearby
2) another stairs at the right direction (up or down).

Playing like that there is no challenge, anybody and their sister can win with that (assuming you manage to learn what you need for final fight before actually being there, which is not likely using that method, you need to read forums like this to learn that info).

[Derakon]

No. Stairscumming is repeatedly going up and down the same staircase, only leaving it if you can see interesting stuff in the immediate vicinity. You don't actually make any progress in the dungeon (unless you take down staircases that you can see near the stairs you just took), but you do get more chances at unguarded floor loot than is normal.

What you're talking about is just the difference between a clearing and diving strategy, and I suspect everyone plays with various points between the two extremes (one of clearing every room on every level, the other of taking the first down staircase you see as soon as you see it).

[LostTemplar]

1) something interesting in immediate nearby
2) another stairs at the right direction (up or down).

This is so incredibly slow and boring, that anyone doing only this and win must be a hero of angband.

Real stairscumming IMHO is use stair, use detection, see if you want to do something here, if not, use the same stair again. Or at least you need ESP to scum for pits,vaults,uniques,lone dragons,whatever you prefer to kill.

[bulian]

Why do I feel this discussion is my fault for posting those experiment results? Eek.

Real stairscumming IMHO is use stair, use detection, see if you want to do something here, if not, use the same stair again. Or at least you need ESP to scum for pits,vaults,uniques,lone dragons,whatever you prefer to kill.

This is the gist of effective stair scumming. A rogue with >100 MP and regen can effectively do this ad infinitum without resting.

[Derakon]

"Immediate vicinity" includes things seen via detection. Apologies for not making that clear.

[dos350]

ee, this is my stair doctrine for anyone interested:

roll char
shop
go down stair
go up and down til u get another down stair right near the stair
repeat
ee (...)
now u hav detect treasure rod, or u are rog, u can now stair scum for profit
win

that is how i scum, and it usualy involves pressing < and > very fast alot, and being sad when i scum too fast and see something good when its asking me to clear up or down stair msg :@@@,

anyway ty for less rage since my last post, hooo!

... edit, ty bulian, u do me great honor by posting here, ee! u scum with great might!

[Philip]

Here we go again.
Bulian is good at stairscumming. So would PowerDiver and Timo and anyone. And note that he played as a test, and didn't even say much, and the only thing we know is that stairscumming is a powerful tactic. Also, your idea of stairscumming is too complicated, it's simpler to obey:
1. Go to general store
2. Buy flasks of oil(throwing, later refilling found lanterns)
3. Kill Morgoth

[PowerDiver]

So I quit clearing "boring" levels and used stairs quite often, usually after only a quarter of the level was cleared -- unless I found interesting monsters, uniques, or a nice level feeling.

Am I stairscumming?

Not even close.

[dos350]

sorry, for overcomplicating the doctrine, i wanted to highlight wat i consider the important steps, eee for those who are new to stair scum or those who havnt yet experienced the joy it brings!~