320 stair failure

[dos350]

hi, im still playing this game, eeee the fun doesnt end with win!! but it kinda did for a few days.. anyway~ i see alot of people not enjoying stairs or not realizing their full potential or thinking they are good for not using or watever anyway i made a char in protest of this, but it failed~ so does that mean stairs are bad? no it does not... it means somethin else or nothing, i was 1 shot by the pheonix on dlvl 50something eeeeeeeeek, i had fire res and 300+hp, ( my first good mage, i enjoyed finding keleka on dlvl 4 or something, also early speed... fun times eee, randart he mage, hooo! other than failing, the sad thing was the randarts i found were not good!

  [Angband 3.2.0 Character Dump]

 Name   STAIR-ADVOCATE                           Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Sex    Male         Age            125   STR:  18/83  +1  -5  +0  18/43
 Race   High-Elf     Height          89   INT:  18/38  +3  +3  +3 18/128
 Class  Mage         Weight         174   WIS:      9  -1  +0  +3     11
 Title  Evoker       Social       Liked   DEX:     14  +3  +1  +0     18
 HP     -61/339      Maximize         Y   CON:  18/93  +1  -2  +2 18/103
 SP     124/151                           CHR:     11  +5  +1  +0     17

 Level               30   Armor    [29,+44]     Saving Throw         78%
 Cur Exp         187507   Fight     (+4,+3)     Stealth           Superb
 Max Exp         194570   Melee   (+14,+12)     Fighting       Excellent
 Adv Exp         230000   Shoot   (+24,+11)     Shooting       Excellent
 MaxDepth   2950' (L59)   Blows    3.3/turn     Disarming            65%
 Game Turns      572558   Shots      1/turn     Magic Device         102
 Standard Turns   84664   Infra       40 ft     Perception       1 in 16
 Resting Turns    38688   Speed           7     Searching            19%
 Gold              3197   Burden  117.9 lbs

 You are one of several children of a Telerin Ranger.  You have light
 grey eyes, straight black hair, and a fair complexion.



rAcid:......++..... rConf:.............
rElec:....+.+...... Sound:.............
rFire:......+.+.... Shard:.............
rCold:......++..... Nexus:.......+.....
rPois:...+......... Nethr:.............
rFear:............. Chaos:.............
rLite:............+ Disen:.............
rDark:............. S.Dig:.............
rBlnd:......+...... Feath:.............

Light:............. Aggrv:.............
Regen:.........+... Stea.:......++.....
  ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:............+ Infra:............+
FrAct:.......+..+.. Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:...........+.
ImpHP:............. Blows:+............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.............


  [Last Messages]

> Illegal object choice (tag)!
> Vargo, Tyrant of Fire shrugs off the attack.
> There is a wall in the way!
> Illegal aim direction!
> Vargo, Tyrant of Fire resists a lot.
> Vargo, Tyrant of Fire shrugs off the attack.
> Vargo, Tyrant of Fire is targeted.
> Vargo, Tyrant of Fire disappears!
> You see a Pair of Leather Sandals [1].
> You have a Pair of Leather Sandals [1] (t).
> You enter a maze of down staircases.
> You have an excellent feeling...
> The Phoenix breathes fire.
> The Nether wraith cries out feebly.
> You die.

Killed by The Phoenix.

  [Character Equipment]

a) a Rapier of Extra Attacks (1d6) (+10,+9) (+2)
     Dropped by Bolg, Son of Azog at 1450 feet (level 29).
     
     +2 attack speed.
     
     Combat info:
     3.3 blows/round.
     With an additional 2 strength and 0 dex you would get 3.6 blows
     With an additional 0 strength and 1 dex you would get 3.6 blows
     Average damage/round: 53.2.
     
b) a Sling of Accuracy (x2) (+20,+11)
     Found lying on the floor at 2050 feet (level 41).
     
     
     
c) a Ring of Intelligence (+3)
     Found lying on the floor at 2200 feet (level 44).
     
     +3 intelligence.
     Sustains intelligence.
     
d) a Ring of Resist Poison
     Bought from a store.
     
     Provides resistance to poison.
     
e) an Amulet of Resist Lightning
     Found lying on the floor at 500 feet (level 10).
     
     Provides resistance to lightning.
     Cannot be harmed by electricity.
     
f) The Phial 'Aglondair' (+1)
     Dropped by Ulfast, Son of Ulfang at 1050 feet (level 21).
     
     +1 wisdom.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     When activated, it lights up the surrounding area, hurting
     light-sensitive creatures.
     Takes 29 to 54 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 97.8%
     
     Radius 3 light.
g) Studded Leather Armour of Elvenkind [12,+8] (+3 stealth)
     Bought from a store.
     
     +3 stealth.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
h) The Cloak of Teldi [1,+14] (+2)
     Found lying on the floor at 1350 feet (level 27).
     
     +2 wisdom, constitution, stealth.
     Provides resistance to acid, cold, nexus.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains constitution.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
i) a Small Metal Shield of Resist Fire [5,+10]
     Found lying on the floor at 2350 feet (level 47).
     
     Provides resistance to fire.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
j) a Metal Cap of Regeneration [3,+5]
     Found lying on the floor at 1800 feet (level 36).
     
     Speeds regeneration.  
     
k) a Set of Mithril Gauntlets of Free Action [6,+5]
     Found lying on the floor at 1750 feet (level 35).
     
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
l) a Pair of Leather Boots of Speed [2,+0] (+7)
     Dropped by Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman at 700 feet (level 14).
     
     +7 speed.
     


  [Character Quiver]

n) 22 Iron Shots (1d4) (+6,+6)
     Dropped by a Cave orc at 2200 feet (level 44).
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 100 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 39.7.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
o) 18 Iron Shots of Frost (1d4) (+7,+13)
     Found in a chest from 2050 feet (level 41).
     
     Branded with frost.
     Cannot be harmed by cold.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 100 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 135.1 vs. creatures not resistant to cold,
     and 54 vs. others.
     25% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
p) (nothing)
q) (nothing)
r) (nothing)
s) (nothing)
t) (nothing)
u) (nothing)
v) (nothing)
w) (nothing)


  [Character Inventory]

a) a Book of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners]
     
     
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks]
     
     
c) a Book of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions]
     
     
d) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations]
     
     
e) a Book of Magic Spells [Raal's Tome of Destruction]
     Found in a chest from 2850 feet (level 57).
     
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
f) a Book of Magic Spells [Kelek's Grimoire of Power]
     Found lying on the floor at 450 feet (level 9).
     
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
g) a Mushroom of Fast Recovery
     Dropped by a Cave orc at 2200 feet (level 44).
     
     
h) 3 Mushrooms of Clear Mind
     Dropped by a Scruffy looking hobbit at 1150 feet (level 23).
     
     
i) 14 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
     
j) a Potion of Life
     Bought from a store.
     
     It can be thrown at creatures with damaging effect.
     
k) a Potion of Restore Mana
     Found lying on the floor at 2850 feet (level 57).
     
     
     
l) a Potion of Dragon Breath
     Dropped by a Cave ogre at 2850 feet (level 57).
     
     
     
m) 14 Scrolls of Phase Door
     
     
n) 5 Scrolls of Word of Recall
     
     
o) 2 Rods of Treasure Location
     
     
p) a Rod of Fire Bolts
     Found lying on the floor at 1750 feet (level 35).
     
     
     
q) 2 Rods of Frost Bolts
     
     
r) 2 Rods of Recall
     Cannot be harmed by electricity.
     
s) 3 Staves of Teleportation (24 charges)
     
t) a Pair of Leather Sandals of Stability [1,+10]
     Found lying on the floor at 2900 feet (level 58).
     
     Provides resistance to nexus.
     Feather Falling.  
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) a Potion of Restore Dexterity
     Dropped by a Barrow wight at 2850 feet (level 57).
     
     
     
b) a Scroll of Protection from Evil
     Dropped by a Half-troll at 2200 feet (level 44).
     
     
     
c) a Ring of Resist Cold
     Dropped by a Novice mage at 1350 feet (level 27).
     
     Provides resistance to cold.
     Cannot be harmed by cold.
     
d) a Ring of Slaying (+8,+3)
     Dropped by a Nether wraith at 2850 feet (level 57).
     
     
     


============================================================
                   CHAR.
|   TURN  | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
         1      0'    1   Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
      4960    100'    2   Reached level 2
     10043    150'    3   Reached level 3
     13341    250'    4   Reached level 4
     14962    250'    4   Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
     14962    250'    5   Reached level 5
     14962    250'    6   Reached level 6
     21341    250'    7   Reached level 7
     30634    300'    8   Reached level 8
     44971    450'    8   I JUST FOUND KELEKA ON DLVL 9, EE
     44971    450'    8   I HAV NEVER GOTTEN A GOOD MAG BOOK ON MAG
     44971    450'    8   SORRY FOR NOTES EEE
     47245    450'    9   Reached level 9
     60563    500'   10   Reached level 10
     78780    650'   11   Reached level 11
     87931    700'   12   Reached level 12
    103437    700'   13   Reached level 13
    106197    700'   13   Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
    107574    700'   13   EEE NOTES ~ I FOUND BOOT OF SPEED +7 FROM AGENT ON DLVL 14 :OO
    118991    800'   14   Reached level 14
    122259    750'   14   Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
    131478    950'   15   Reached level 15
    146037   1050'   16   Reached level 16
    157724   1050'   17   Reached level 17
    158171   1050'   17   Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
    158189   1050'   17   Found The Phial 'Aglondair'
    170116   1000'   18   Reached level 18
    170156   1000'   18   Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
    189527   1100'   19   Reached level 19
    200695   1200'   19   Killed Brodda, the Easterling
    214553   1200'   20   Reached level 20
    226992   1200'   20   Killed Boldor, King of the Yeeks
    229552   1200'   21   Reached level 21
    240607   1150'   21   Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
    241554   1150'   21   Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
    254456   1100'   22   Reached level 22
    272028   1250'   22   Killed Ibun, Son of Mim
    281414   1300'   23   Reached level 23
    289646   1350'   23   Found The Cloak of Teldi
    301213   1450'   24   Reached level 24
    313345   1450'   25   Reached level 25
    315751   1450'   25   Killed Bolg, Son of Azog
    325492   1500'   25   Found The Flail of Lionur (LOST)
    334949   1550'   25   Killed Ugluk, the Uruk
    337214   1550'   25   STAIR LOG: STAIRDATE 31~
    337214   1550'   25   IM FEELING STRONG, THANKS STAIRS
    337214   1550'   25   BUT IM LACKING RPOSO
    337214   1550'   25   I AM 227 HP AT CLVL 25
    337214   1550'   25   LOTS OF POT OF TOUGHMAN EEEEEEE
    337214   1550'   25   RANDART FLAIL I FOUND SUK
    337214   1550'   25   BUT IT GIV 35 ARMO !!!!!!!
    337214   1550'   25   I USE 2EBLOW RAPIER COS I NEED MELEE ACTION
    337214   1550'   25   NOW FOR MORE ACTION!
    343494   1550'   26   Reached level 26
    346555   1600'   26   Killed Smeagol
    349861   1600'   26   Killed Angamaite of Umbar
    385912   1800'   27   Reached level 27
    396954   1750'   27   Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
    420489   1800'   27   Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
    424716   1850'   27   Killed Sangahyando of Umbar
    428355   1850'   27   Found The Pair of Iron Shod Boots of Ereglin (LOST)
    428380   1850'   27   FOUND ARTIFACT BOOTY< SPEED +7
    428659   1850'   28   Reached level 28
    447519   1950'   28   Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
    461566      0'   28   Killed Farmer Maggot
    492021   2200'   28   Killed Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief
    493887   2200'   29   Reached level 29
    510977   2300'   29   Found The Pair of Leather Boots of Thaldi (LOST)
    541165   2700'   29   Found The Long Sword of Marriel
    545376      0'   29   I HAV RPOSO FROM BLaKMARKET
    546829   2750'   30   Reached level 30
    552029   2750'   30   Killed Bill the Stone Troll
    565543   2850'   29   Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
    567472      0'   30   Reached level 30


  [Options]

Maximize effect of race/class bonuses        : yes (adult_maximize)
Randomize the artifacts (except a few)       : yes (adult_randarts)
Restrict the use of stairs/recall            : no  (adult_ironman)
Restrict the use of stores/home              : no  (adult_no_stores)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (adult_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor             : no  (adult_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (adult_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs              : no  (adult_no_stairs)
Don't show level feelings                    : no  (adult_no_feelings)
Items always sell for 0 gold                 : no  (adult_no_selling)
Adult: Monsters chase current location       : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations       : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups        : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes    : no  (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses   : no  (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no  (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation             : no  (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation            : no  (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation            : no  (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else              : no  (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info            : no  (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death           : no  (score_live)

[Pete Mack]

Bummer. The most important early find for a mage is MB5, so that you can have permanent double rFire and rCold. It makes a huge difference when max fire damage is 177 instead of 533.

[Philip]

So, maybe you learned that constantly wandering around the stairs is not a good idea(huge instadeath chance, especially if you don't have poison resist, which you didn't have until dlevel 54 if I am not mistaken).
Another point to make is that finding kelek's on dlevel 9 does not advocate for stairs unless you found it by stairscumming. Most likely you got an awesome feeling and then found it by clearing. That's how my rogue found Holy Infusions. That meant a shopping spree. He now has a cap of telepathy bought from the black market.
I admit I am stairscumming now, but I am playing a rogue, and they get detect treasure and are thus in a good position to do so. Also, I don't stairscum too much, and by now I usually take a different stair, because I want to go down. With Mordenkainen's it's way too easy.
And last, how can you complain about artifact quality if you found such awesome boots that actually beat artifact boots. Also, why on earth do you chuck every artifact you ever found, I might have told you something about them, like the sword you maybe should have wielded and used a constitution or intellingence ring instead of the rpoison ring. Melee is overrated for mages these days.

[pampl]

i see alot of people not enjoying stairs or not realizing their full potential or thinking they are good for not using or watever anyway i made a char in protest of this, but it failed~ so does that mean stairs are bad? no it does not...

The reason people dislike stairscumming isn't because it's a bad tactic, it's because it's too effective and easy...

[dos350]

im sorry u missunderstand phillip, i never get lvl feelings, i stair scum very rapidly, and people disslike something thats good? where is logic?

edit, im not tryin to be rude,

also~ i throw the artifacts cos i was desperate for cash!

[Philip]

im sorry u missunderstand phillip, i never get lvl feelings, i stair scum very rapidly, and people disslike something thats good? where is logic?

edit, im not tryin to be rude,

also~ i throw the artifacts cos i was desperate for cash!

Umm, why are you playing angband? Easy, unless intended is bad. Lucky finds are allowed, like your kelek's, but stairscumming is plain wrong. Logic does not factor into angband, and I suggest that since you have won the game you could play something else. You are not a *band person as i see them. Anyway throwing out artifacts is wierd even if you want cash. What were you buying that could not be bought with 5 or so wands of xxx bolts? Anything with something interesting is good, and I would never have sold the sword without anything obviously better.

[Timo Pietilä]

im sorry u missunderstand phillip, i never get lvl feelings, i stair scum very rapidly, and people disslike something thats good? where is logic?

There is a reason why stairscumming is called stairscumming.

That is not the way game is supposed to be played. You make me want to suggesting removal of connected stairs completely.

Based on your posts you have learned nothing about this game.

[dos350]

lol? please no rage...

sorry but i feel i need to defend myself from these unwarranted attacks~

why dont i seem like a band person? why say this to me, angband is my favorite game ever, and i really dont appreciate being told how its meant to be played,

i think its up to the player to play however works.

i sold the trash artifacts (why is this an issue for you?) to buy stat pots and ring of psn resist which are better imo?? i dont hav emotional tie to every artifact i find...

im almost blown away by this rage, why?????????????

eeeeeeeeeee! please see the light people, sorry to upset u ???

[fph]

dos350, you should play Lost Souls in ToME2 -- they are a stair scummer's challenge game. Seriously, not joking; you'd enjoy them. It's pratically impossible to play them without stair scumming.

[Philip]

lol? please no rage...

sorry but i feel i need to defend myself from these unwarranted attacks~

why dont i seem like a band person? why say this to me, angband is my favorite game ever, and i really dont appreciate being told how its meant to be played,

i think its up to the player to play however works.

i sold the trash artifacts (why is this an issue for you?) to buy stat pots and ring of psn resist which are better imo?? i dont hav emotional tie to every artifact i find...

im almost blown away by this rage, why?????????????

eeeeeeeeeee! please see the light people, sorry to upset u ???

I will adress your problems in the order of your post.
This is not a good way to be part of the community. You seem to not want to have your posts coherent and your capitalization is annoying, not to mention that 15 or so question marks is too much. I hope it explains what you feel is rage.
We were in now way attacking you, just your playstyle. Angband may be your favorite game, but you are not playing it in a way that you could ever be good at a variant where part of it is unscummable or at comps with disconnected stairs.
Maybe you don't appreciate that we tell you that stairscumming is plain wrong, but we feel that the only way to become good at angband is not to use (stair)SCUMMY tactics.
It may be up to the player, but as I mention above, it tends not to work if you try to play some variants or comps.
You say you sold trash artifacts, but only the boots could possibly be trash, and even then I would rather get a few wands. I recently sacrificed 5 speed for FA, rNether and pConf. It let me use a few more things and I felt it was better. It was Dalithalion vs. boots of speed +10. The sword was definetly awesome and I would not sell it. Even if it had only poison resist it was better than what you had, because you could use a good ring.
Again, nicer posts would probably be enough to make us accept you into the community.
EDIT: I just saw fph's post. I would advocate FAangband's thrall mode here as well.

[kingvictory2003]

I'll have to agree with you on some points, dos350. I don't know where some of the latent anger (or at least annoyance) comes from, but rarely is it constructive, and it sure as heck doesn't make anyone feel good; and if the point of it is to make someone who is trying to enjoy the game feel bad...well that's a real shame.

Stairscumming is certainly looked down upon as "cheap" by some, but as you and others have observed, it definitely is not without risks. I shamelessly stairscum in Hengband in the Dragon Caves, and in Hengband, the first level of any dungeon that is entered from the surface has objects generated as if it were 50' depth. This was done to prevent just cherrypicking deep objects at an early level. I scum for easy-to-kill dragons, which to me is not quite as bad as object scumming, but scumming nonetheless.

I looked at it this way: presumably the "Dragon Caves" are CAVES, not A cave, and I'm just ducking stealthily into each cave to see what dragons might be there in the entry. Steel Dragon napping 20 feet from the entrance? No thanks. Back out and check out the next one over. Ahh! There's a young black dragon with a small shiny treasure hoard. Mind you, Hengband is orders more difficult than vanilla, and I've gotten my head blown off many, many times with this tactic.

But guess what?

Risk and all, it's FUN. Having played probably 300+ characters in Hengband, the early, and especially the mid levels can get quite tedious. So why not go for the good stuff to speed the process up, while keeping interest in the game with the high risk level?

Finally, I'll just put it out there that this is my own opinion, and whatever changes happen to vanilla, we'll adapt time and again. If a change is made that is less than pleasing to a significant number of players, posts are often made in a thoughtful, considerate manner that help to guide development in a better direction.

It's the quality of the forum members here that really convinced me to sign up in the first place. The second the forums start becoming consistently like the world of warcraft forums is the second I will leave. Fortunately, it only happened briefly with a thread (that shall not be named) that thankfully went to and hopefully will stay in the wastelands.

For now, thank you so much Pav for this fantastic website, and to you forum members who contribute to the experience with thoughtful and humorous posts about this dangerously addicting little game.

[Nick]

Well said.

One of the big strengths, IMHO, of Angband is the variety of ways in which it appeals to people.

If time to time someone pops up with a very different way of looking at things, I think that's a sign that the game is in good shape.

[dos350]

please, philip im sorry i got to u.... please, i ... i would in my normal setting really go off and say a lot,~ im not trying to be a lozer or hurt anyone, im just trying to share my joy... eeee , please? and timeo??? u wanting to hurt the game to make me cry??~ nice

anyway, for those who arent raged, u might be glad to know im still protesting, this time on a hobbit rogue.


hooo~

but just so u know , phillp sorry to say, i think u think u are good or something, and i really care little for ur judgement, sorry , please no rage

[Philip]

please, philip im sorry i got to u.... please, i ... i would in my normal setting really go off and say a lot,~ im not trying to be a lozer or hurt anyone, im just trying to share my joy... eeee , please? and timeo??? u wanting to hurt the game to make me cry??~ nice

anyway, for those who arent raged, u might be glad to know im still protesting, this time on a hobbit rogue.


hooo~

but just so u know , phillp sorry to say, i think u think u are good or something, and i really care little for ur judgement, sorry , please no rage

Sorry if I came off as too annoyed. A hobbit rogue I will allow scumming for, although since I am playing one I noticed that it's in fact quite hard with the detect treasure spell. I felt like trying it and kept going out of my way for something. I don't understand the last part.
Also, I realize stairscumming is a viable tactic, and don't really mind anymore. Please keep your posts coherent, correctly capitalized and such and maybe you will find the community happier and thus more tolerant. You seem to want to prove that stairscumming is a good tactic. We think it's a great tactic, we just think that since it is not intended, we should not use it and try to win in the intended way.

[Timo Pietilä]

please, philip im sorry i got to u.... please, i ... i would in my normal setting really go off and say a lot,~ im not trying to be a lozer or hurt anyone, im just trying to share my joy... eeee , please? and timeo??? u wanting to hurt the game to make me cry??~ nice

If you can't write my name correctly, don't try to write it at all.

You can scum all you wish, just don't gloat about it. It is like "Hey everybody, I just cheated a lot!. This gave me something that non-cheating would not give me.".

Seriously, stair-scumming is viewed as cheating because it is a method of playing which abuses a feature of the game in a way it is not mean to be used. Similar way as using hockey sticks a lot. Angband community is determined to remove such abuses, so don't be surprised if that really is removed from upcoming releases.