I don't think I can take it anymore...

[Fendell Orcbane]

So in my latest attempt to win I'm just been diving like there is no tomorrow. Other than side trips to kill dragons or other interesting looking things I've just been heading for the stairs. However I'm down at lvl49 and I still don't have a rPoison... I'm seriously considering not hanging around that low with out rPoison. I've already had a close call with a 7 or 9 headed hydra and Kavalax. I feel like I'm tempting fate here. I've also managed to avoid an AMHD, and although I'm finding a lot of money the actually magic items that I'm getting don't seem to be worth the risk of getting killed in one shot. The lesser balrog was the last straw.

Here is my character:

[Angband 3.1.2v2 Character Dump]

Name Miryaril V Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 116 STR: 18/52 +1 +2 +0 18/82
Race High-Elf Height 99 INT: 13 +3 +2 +4 18/40
Class Ranger Weight 198 WIS: 11 -1 +0 +7 17
Title Guide Social Role model DEX: 17 +3 +1 +1 18/40
HP 217/217 Maximize Y CON: 13 +1 +1 +0 15
SP 50/50 CHR: 10 +5 +1 +3 18/10

Level 28 Armor [24,+49] Saving Throw 78%
Cur Exp 107184 Fight (+6,+18) Stealth Superb
Max Exp 107184 Melee (+15,+30) Fighting Superb
Adv Exp 115000 Shoot (+18,+15) Shooting Legendary
MaxDepth 2450' (L49) Blows 4/turn Disarming 60%
Game Turns 553495 Shots 3/turn Magic Device 83
Player Turns 64016 Infra 40 ft Perception 1 in 20
Active Turns 52764 Speed 4 Searching 27%
Gold 36415 Burden 147.5 lbs

You are the only child of a Vanyarin Warrior. You have light grey
eyes, wavy black hair, and a fair complexion.



rAcid:.......+..... rConf:.........+...
rElec:.+....+...... Sound:.............
rFire:.+......+.... Shard:.............
rCold:++........... Nexus:.............
rPois:............. Nethr:.............
rFear:............. Chaos:.............
rLite:............+ Disen:.............
rDark:............. S.Dig:.+..+........
rBlnd:............. Feath:.............

Light:............. Aggrv:.............
Regen:............. Stea.:.......+...+.
ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:............+ Infra:............+
FrAct:...+......+.. Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:.+.....+.....
ImpHP:............. Blows:.............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.+...........
Fear:............. Might:.+...........


[Character Equipment]

a) The Dagger 'Nimthanc' (2d4) (+9,+12) [+10]
Branded with frost.
Provides resistance to cold.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

When aimed, it creates a frost bolt with damage 6d8.
Takes 11 to 21 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 96.7%

Combat info:
4 blows/round.
With an additional 0 strength and 6 dex you would get 5 blows
Average damage/hit: 45.8 vs. creatures not resistant to cold, and
35.5 vs. others.

b) The Short Bow of Amras (x3) (+12,+15) (+1 speed)
+1 intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, speed, shooting speed,
shooting power.
Provides resistance to lightning, fire, cold.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Slows your metabolism.

c) a Ring of Damage (+0,+10)
d) a Ring of Free Action
Prevents paralysis.

e) an Amulet of Slow Digestion
Slows your metabolism.

f) The Phial of Galadriel
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

When activated, it lights up the surrounding area, hurting light-s
ensitive creatures.
Takes 15 to 28 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 96.4%

Radius 3 light.
g) Metal Scale Mail of Resist Lightning [12,+7]
Provides resistance to lightning.
Cannot be harmed by electricity.

h) The Cloak 'Holcolleth' [1,+5] (+3)
+3 intelligence, wisdom, stealth, speed.
Provides resistance to acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

When activated, it puts to sleep the monsters around you.
Takes 77 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 96.4%

i) a Small Metal Shield of Resist Fire [4,+5]
Provides resistance to fire.
Cannot be harmed by fire.

j) The Metal Cap of Thengel [3,+12] (+3)
+3 wisdom, charisma.
Provides resistance to confusion.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

k) a Set of Caestus of Free Action (+0,+3) [2,+4]
Prevents paralysis.

l) a Pair of Leather Boots of Stealth [2,+4] (+3)
+3 stealth.



[Character Quiver]

n) 13 Arrows of Slay Demon (1d4) (+8,+5)
Slays demons.

Combat info:
Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
Average damage/hit: 206.5 vs. demons, and 68.8 vs. others.
35% chance of breaking upon contact.

o) 57 Arrows (1d4) (+0,+0)
Combat info:
Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
Average damage/hit: 53.
35% chance of breaking upon contact.

p) (nothing)
q) (nothing)
r) (nothing)
s) (nothing)
t) (nothing)
u) (nothing)
v) (nothing)
w) (nothing)


[Character Inventory]

a) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] {m1}
b) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] {m2}
c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions]
d) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations]
e) 22 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds

f) a Potion of Healing

g) 3 Potions of Speed
h) 2 Potions of Heroism
i) a Potion of Resist Poison
j) 26 Scrolls of Phase Door
k) 6 Scrolls of Word of Recall
l) 2 Rods of Light
m) 2 Wands of Fire Bolts (14 charges)

n) a Wand of Cold Balls (4 charges)
Cannot be harmed by cold.

o) a Wand of Teleport Other (2 charges)

p) a Staff of Earthquakes (5 charges)

q) 3 Staves of Teleportation (23 charges)



[Home Inventory]

a) 16 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds

b) 2 Potions of Restore Strength
c) a Potion of Restore Wisdom
d) 3 Potions of Restore Dexterity
e) a Potion of Restore Constitution
f) 6 Potions of Restore Life Levels
g) 3 Potions of Speed
h) 3 Potions of Heroism
i) 2 Scrolls of Detect Invisible
j) 18 Scrolls of Word of Recall
k) 4 Scrolls of Recharging
l) a Rod of Fire Bolts
m) a Rod of Recall
Cannot be harmed by electricity.

n) a Staff of Mapping (5 charges)

o) a Staff of Speed (1 charge)

p) 2 Staves of Identify (7 charges)

q) a Ring of See Invisible
Grants the ability to see invisible things.

r) 2 Rings of Bodykeeping
Sustains strength, dexterity, constitution.

s) a Cloak of Protection [1,+15]
Provides resistance to shards.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

t) The Beaked Axe of Hurin (3d6) (+12,+15) (+2) (charging)
+2 strength, constitution.
Slays trolls, dragons.
*Slays* demons.
Branded with acid.
Provides resistance to acid, fire, dark.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.

When activated, it puts you in a berserker rage for d50+50 turns.
Takes 113 to 224 turns to recharge at your current speed.
Your chance of success is 95.0%

Combat info:
2 blows/round.
With an additional 2 strength and 1 dex you would get 3 blows
With an additional 0 strength and 3 dex you would get 3 blows
Average damage/hit: 69.3 vs. trolls, 69.3 vs. dragons, 69.3 vs.
creatures not resistant to acid, 92 vs. demons, and 46.7 vs. others.

Radius 1 light.
u) a Long Bow of Power (x3) (+15,+15)


================================================== ==========
CHAR.
| TURN | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
================================================== ==========
1 0' 1 Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
3913 100' 2 Reached level 2
9529 150' 3 Reached level 3
15873 200' 4 Reached level 4
23004 200' 5 Reached level 5
24368 200' 5 Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
32115 350' 6 Reached level 6
38026 350' 7 Reached level 7
50833 350' 8 Reached level 8
74246 450' 9 Reached level 9
88719 600' 10 Reached level 10
112822 750' 11 Reached level 11
140024 150' 11 Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
164468 400' 12 Reached level 12
169678 400' 12 Killed Smeagol
169743 400' 12 Found The Phial of Galadriel
187451 900' 12 Killed Brodda, the Easterling
191338 850' 13 Reached level 13
229554 950' 14 Reached level 14
239562 950' 14 Found The Dagger 'Nimthanc'
251587 950' 15 Reached level 15
256441 950' 16 Reached level 16
256960 0' 16 Killed Farmer Maggot
267699 950' 17 Reached level 17
268000 950' 17 Found The Cloak 'Holcolleth'
278261 1000' 18 Reached level 18
287032 1050' 18 Found The Beaked Axe of Hurin
292890 1150' 19 Reached level 19
294370 1150' 19 Found The Metal Cap of Thengel
308824 1200' 19 Killed Nar, the Dwarf
310359 1200' 19 Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
317537 1200' 19 Killed Angamaite of Umbar
317537 1200' 20 Reached level 20
327051 1250' 21 Reached level 21
346290 400' 21 Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
354405 600' 21 Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
370249 1250' 21 Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
371993 1250' 22 Reached level 22
378126 1450' 22 Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
383598 1450' 23 Reached level 23
400149 1500' 24 Reached level 24
415037 1600' 25 Reached level 25
419749 1600' 25 Killed Ugluk, the Uruk
432932 1800' 25 Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
436862 1800' 26 Reached level 26
474214 1800' 26 Killed Draebor, the Imp
489475 1900' 27 Reached level 27
511390 2100' 27 Killed Khim, Son of Mim
521017 2200' 28 Reached level 28
531054 2200' 28 Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
534633 2250' 28 Killed Sangahyando of Umbar
535356 2250' 28 Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
551204 2450' 28 Found The Short Bow of Amras


[Options]

Maximize effect of race/class bonuses : yes (adult_maximize)
Randomize some of the artifacts (beta) : no (adult_randarts)
Restrict the use of stairs/recall : no (adult_ironman)
Restrict the use of stores/home : no (adult_no_stores)
Restrict creation of artifacts : no (adult_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor : no (adult_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level : no (adult_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs : no (adult_no_stairs)
Adult: Monsters chase current location : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes : no (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses : no (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation : no (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation : no (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation : no (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else : no (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info : no (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death : no (score_live)

[buzzkill]

Yep. This is how my typical fast diving game goes. Your resists suck and going deeper seems suicidal, but you can't stay where you're at, so I guess you have to keep going deeper and probably end up dead (or go back to DL30 and be bored to death). Without ESP, I guess out just have to be really OCD with the detections. It's very frustrating.

[fizzix]

Ironically it's actually safer. The more neurotic you feel you have to be with detections, the less likely you are to get bored and do something stupid. I know it's counter intuitive, but you actually feel like you're playing a game and not just randomly grinding.

Search for every unid'd ring, rpois will come up eventually. Check the BM for one also. Even with rpois a drolem's poison breath does 244, so you wouldn't survive that anyway. Ethereal dragons will also kill you, and you need to be detecting invis to see them. Kill everything you physically can, and the equipment will come.

[Zikke]

I would advocate not diving past stat gain without Telepathy, See Invis, and Free Action. Period. Some people will say "dive anyway!" but in my experience it is suicide.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I would advocate not diving past stat gain without Telepathy, See Invis, and Free Action. Period. Some people will say "dive anyway!" but in my experience it is suicide.

Well I'd do it if I had a poison resist ring. But now I see that i need more hit points as well. It looks like its back to the grind for me: )

[Fendell Orcbane]

Ironically it's actually safer. The more neurotic you feel you have to be with detections, the less likely you are to get bored and do something stupid. I know it's counter intuitive, but you actually feel like you're playing a game and not just randomly grinding.

Search for every unid'd ring, rpois will come up eventually. Check the BM for one also. Even with rpois a drolem's poison breath does 244, so you wouldn't survive that anyway. Ethereal dragons will also kill you, and you need to be detecting invis to see them. Kill everything you physically can, and the equipment will come.

Well I think I'm going to have to grind a bit...I too hate grinding, but dyiing at this point would be even worse since I think I could win with this character. I will win if I don't do anything really stupid or get really unlucky. And I've been tempting fate quite a bit lately.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Yep. This is how my typical fast diving game goes. Your resists suck and going deeper seems suicidal, but you can't stay where you're at, so I guess you have to keep going deeper and probably end up dead (or go back to DL30 and be bored to death). Without ESP, I guess out just have to be really OCD with the detections. It's very frustrating.

I've been diving in hopes for finding better stuff rather than as a cure for boredom. But I can see that I can't continue to keep going since it seems suicidal. If I had a win under my belt I'd consider diving some more but I'm going to play it safe for now.

[PowerDiver]

How does that saying go?

It's not the dive that kills you. It is when you stop diving abruptly.

[miyazaki]

I've been diving in hopes for finding better stuff rather than as a cure for boredom. But I can see that I can't continue to keep going since it seems suicidal. If I had a win under my belt I'd consider diving some more but I'm going to play it safe for now.

I think you are past the point of no return. Going deeper isn't considerably more dangerous. Either you head back up for "safer" levels or keep going down looking for better loot!

At this point rpois is the least of your worries. Despite the hysteria about drolems around this site, I find them to be a non-issue. You should be more worried about packs of gravity hounds and baskilisks and wall-traversing undead.

Use your sealth, your bow and that staff of speed (with as many ?recharge as you can buy).

[Zikke]

I think you are past the point of no return. Going deeper isn't considerably more dangerous. Either you head back up for "safer" levels or keep going down looking for better loot!

At this point rpois is the least of your worries. Despite the hysteria about drolems around this site, I find them to be a non-issue. You should be more worried about packs of gravity hounds and baskilisks and wall-traversing undead.

Use your sealth, your bow and that staff of speed (with as many ?recharge as you can buy).

I agree with all of this.

After a certain point, you will start finding Wyrms which are your primary targets for loot. And you can slowly pick apart vaults, which, at dlvl 90-98, should have a fair amount of goodies including !Experience and !stat.

[fizzix]

How does that saying go?

It's not the dive that kills you. It is when you stop diving abruptly.

Actually, it's improper decompression on recall.

[Fendell Orcbane]

While the general consensus is that I should keep going, I already starrted from the top. While I can't say that this is the right thing to do, I will say that its the right thing to do for now.

Having said all that I know that my opinion may change depending on my experiences. I've already dived much deeper than I would have in my last semi successful game.

One of you mentioned gravity hounds and undead that can pentrate walls. I've already almost bit the dust due to gravity hounds. Honestly I got lucky because I was down to 5 hps when I got near them. I thought that the Ice trolls in front of them would protect me from their breath weapon. I was wrong. However the staff of teleportation that I had was a life saver. Especially because I don't have any *destruction* or teleport level.

But I'm still a noob compared to a lot of you so I'm open to advice. Having said that I can't see how I can get loot if I can't fight anything and have to avoid hounds at all cost. I can just hope to get a good drop off something I can handle but I feel like that is leaving too much up to luck. It would be like stealth grinding. Which I guess is a big part of the game. Well we will see when I get home: )

[Derakon]

Just because you're deep in the dungeon doesn't mean that there's nothing you can kill. Packs of Snagas get generated even at 4900' -- and their loot at that depth is miles better than anything you'd get at "safe" depths. And of course, there's the items you find on the floor. If you want to completely cheese things, you can just bop up and down a staircase (assuming you're playing with connected stairs on) and only leave the stairs if there's a worthwhile item in line of sight when you arrive. Barring the "pack of hounds just out of LOS when you arrive" kill, that's pretty dang safe considering your dungeon level.

[buzzkill]

If you want to completely cheese things, you can just bop up and down a staircase (assuming you're playing with connected stairs on) and only leave the stairs if there's a worthwhile item in line of sight when you arrive.

It's the cheesiest! - akin to save scumming IMO. Hell, it may be worse.

[Fendell Orcbane]

It's the cheesiest! - akin to save scumming IMO. Hell, it may be worse.

Is anything worse than save scumming? It kinda destroys the appeal of angband.