The Angband Ladder: Annar, Sindar Doriath no-class by <wiwaxia.foliosa@gmail.com>

  [Sil-Q 1.4.1 Character Dump]

 Name   Annar         Age      212       Str   1
 Sex    Female        Height   5'8       Dex   6 =  4  +1      +1
 Race   Sindar        Weight   150       Con   4 =  3          +1
 House  Doriath                          Gra   5 =  4  +1

 Game Turn   17,156   Melee   (+7,2d7)   Melee        7 =  0  +6  +1
 Exp Pool       979   Bows   (+24,2d7)   Archery     24 = 15  +6  +2  +1
 Total Exp   44,579   Armor [+12,6-18]   Evasion     12 =  6  +6
 Burden       117.4                      Stealth     -6 =  0  +6  -4  -8
 Max Burden   120.0   Health    -10:41   Perception   8 =  3  +5
 Depth         750'   Voice      18:49   Will        20 = 12  +5  +3
 Min Depth     650'   Song    Elbereth   Smithing    10 =  2  +5  +3
 Light Radius    11                      Song        21 = 12  +5  +3  +1

 You are one of several children of a Sindar archer. You have light
 grey eyes, straight silver hair, and a fair complexion.






  [Last Messages]

> Your shot cripples Nan, the Giant!
> You have 79 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow hits Smaug the Golden!!!
> The Arrow breaks.
> You have 78 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow hits Smaug the Golden...
> You have 77 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow hits Smaug the Golden!!!
> You have 76 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow hits Smaug the Golden.
> You provoke attacks of opportunity from adjacent enemies!
> Smaug the Golden claws you!
> Smaug the Golden breathes fire.
> The Arrow burns up!
> You die.


  [Screenshot]

         
         
  #######
  -..@'..
  ]-d.###
  .-..#  
  ###'#  


  [Equipment]

a) a Quarterstaff of Calacirya (+0,2d6) [+2] <+3> 4.0 lb
   It improves your will and song by 3.  It lights the dungeon
   around you.  It requires both hands to wield it properly.  It
   is a blunt weapon.  It can harm foes through their armour.  
b) a Longbow of the Marchwardens (+1,2d6) 2.0 lb
   It provides resistance to fear.  It grants you the ability to
   see invisible creatures.  It can shoot arrows 20 squares
   (with your current strength).
c) a Bloodstone Ring of Accuracy (+2)
d) a Ruby Ring of Dexterity <+1>
   It increases your dexterity by 1.  It sustains your dexterity.
   
e) a Golden Amulet of the Blessed Realm <+1>
   It increases your grace by 1.  It sustains your grace.  It 
   lights the dungeon around you.  
f) a Feanorian Lamp
g) a Mail Corslet (-1) [-3,2d4]
h) a Cloak of Warmth [+2] {warmth}
   It provides resistance to cold.  
i) (nothing)
j) a Great Helm of Brilliance [-1,1d3]
   It lights the dungeon around you.  
k) a Set of Gloves of the Forge [+0,1d1] <+3>
   It improves your smithing by 3.  
l) a Pair of Greaves of Free Action [+0,1d3]
   It grants you freedom of movement.  
m) 76 Arrows
   They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) (nothing)


  [Inventory]

a) 4 Pale Green Herbs of Rage
b) a Mottled Herb of Healing
c) 3 Russet Herbs of Restoration
d) 2 Fragments of Lembas
e) 4 Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor
f) 4 Pale Green Potions of Clarity
g) 4 Cloudy Potions of Healing
h) 3 Yellow Potions of True Sight
i) 12 Copper Speckled Potions of Antidote
j) 7 Sparkling Blue Potions of Quickness
k) 4 Dark Green Potions of Strength
l) 3 Grey Potions of Dexterity
m) 2 Crimson Potions of Grace
n) a Beech Staff of Revelations (5 charges)
o) a Runed Staff of Warding (2 charges)
p) an Amber Amulet of Constitution <+1>
   It increases your constitution by 1.  It sustains your 
   constitution.  
q) a Mithril Greatsword (-1,3d5) [+1] 5.5 lb
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It requires both hands
   to wield it properly.  
r) The Spear of Boldog (+0,1d12) 5.0 lb
   It slays wolves.  It provides resistance to fear.  It can be
   thrown effectively (3 squares).  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.  It does extra damage when wielded with both hands.
   It counts as a type of polearm.  
s) The War Hammer of Telchar (+0,4d1) <+3> 4.5 lb
   It improves your smithing by 3.  It provides resistance to 
   fire.  It sustains your strength.  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.  It does extra damage when wielded with both hands.
   It is a blunt weapon.  It can harm foes through their armour.  
t) a Shovel (-3,2d2) <+1> 6.5 lb
   It improves your tunneling by 1.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  
u) The Shortbow 'Death's Sting' (+1,1d8) 1.0 lb
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It grants you the
   ability: Crippling Shot.  It can shoot arrows 13 squares
   (with your current strength).
v) 14 Arrows of Piercing
   They cut easily through armour.  They can be shot 20 squares
   (with your current strength and bow).


  [Abilities]

Rout
Blessing of Orome
Crippling Shot
Dexterity
Keen Senses
Inner Light
Hardiness
Poison Resistance
Majesty
Constitution
Weaponsmith
Song of Elbereth
Song of the Trees
Woven Themes


  [Enemies]

  6 / 10  Wolf                                    
  0 /  9  Tanglethorn                             
  0 /  1  Phantom                                 
  5 /  7  Orc                                     
  7 /  7  Grimhawk                                
  5 /  7  Orc scout                               
  6 /  6  Spider hatchling                        
  0 /  2  Blue serpent                            
  1 /  2  Brood spider                            
  9 / 32  Orc soldier                             
  0 /  3  Madthorn                                
 16 / 36  Orc archer                              
  8 / 11  White wolf                              
  (slain) Gorgol, the Butcher 
  9 / 58  Orc warrior                             
  0 /  1  Sword spider                            
 10 / 10  Crebain                                 
  1 /  3  Mewlip                                  
  3 /  6  Orc thief                               
  1 /  3  Nightthorn                              
  3 /  4  Green serpent                           
  2 / 14  Mountain troll                          
  0 /  1  Tattered wight                          
  (slain) Boldog, the Merciless 
  1 / 12  Orc champion                            
  8 / 49  Easterling warrior                      
 23 / 26  Hummerhorn                              
  (seen)  Balcmeg, the Relentless 
  (slain) Lug, the Grotesque 
  4 /  7  Orc captain                             
 25 / 57  Warg                                    
  0 /  4  Grave wight                             
  3 /  4  Dark serpent                            
  (seen)  Orcobal, Champion of the Orcs 
 36 / 48  Whispering shadow                       
  7 /  9  Distended spider                        
  6 /  8  Easterling archer                       
  1 /  1  Twisted bat                             
  (slain) Othrod, the Orc Lord 
  2 /  7  Snow troll                              
  3 /  3  Lurking horror                          
  5 / 12  Giant                                   
  (slain) Uldor, the Accursed 
  6 /  8  Easterling spy                          
  6 /  8  Shadow bat                              
  6 / 13  Sulrauko                                
  6 /  6  Fire-drake hatchling                    
  (slain) Ulfang the Black 
 15 / 23  Werewolf                                
  5 / 12  Shadow spider                           
  5 /  6  Shadow                                  
  1 /  2  Sapphire serpent                        
  5 /  7  Ruby serpent                            
  2 /  2  Creeping horror                         
 11 / 12  Ringrauko                               
  (slain) Delthaur, Balrog of Terror 
  (seen)  Nan, the Giant 
  4 /  4  Cave troll                              
  3 /  4  Emerald serpent                         
  3 /  3  Oathwraith                              
 10 / 17  Cat warrior                             
  3 /  3  Amethyst serpent                        
  2 /  6  Kemenrauko                              
  1 /  2  Grotesque                               
  0 /  3  Young cold-drake                        
  (slain) Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper 
  (slain) Belegwath, Balrog of Shadow 
  1 /  1  Greater werewolf                        
  1 /  2  Cat assassin                            
  1 /  1  Young fire-drake                        
  (seen)  Smaug the Golden 


  [Artefacts]

The Round Shield of the Bloody Hand 
The Spear of Boldog (found)
The War Hammer of Telchar (found)
The Shortbow 'Death's Sting' (found)


  [Notes]

Annar of the Sindar
Entered Angband on 3 Jan 2019

   Turn     Depth   Note

     12     50 ft   gonna try a light/fear archer again
     12     50 ft   see how archer changes work with that
     12     50 ft   especially orome
     35     50 ft   (Song of Elbereth)
     67     50 ft   confused sunlight for a yellow herb, whoops
    115     50 ft   (Weaponsmith)
    788    100 ft   Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
    798    100 ft   Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
    808    100 ft   Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
    904    100 ft   (Rout)
  1,237    150 ft   (Blessing of Orome)
  1,607    150 ft   orome just saved me from backing up into a mad&
  1,607    150 ft   so far so nice
  2,080    200 ft   Encountered Gorgol, the Butcher
  2,094    200 ft   orome got boldog to run without elbereth, i think
  2,323    200 ft   Slew Gorgol, the Butcher
  2,873    300 ft   orome is probably a little too good
  2,873    300 ft   three light seems more reasonable
  2,873    300 ft   having early-game is fun though
  2,996    300 ft   early-game on my previous run of this build
  2,996    300 ft   i had a lot of trouble keeping things scared
  2,996    300 ft   without running out of voice
  2,996    300 ft   orome has pretty much solved that problem for orcs
  3,010    300 ft   i don't really need elbereth for them at all
  3,010    300 ft   (famous last words, but true through orc warriors)
  3,619    400 ft   Encountered Lug, the Grotesque
  3,679    400 ft   Encountered Balcmeg, the Relentless
  3,862    400 ft   Slew Lug, the Grotesque
  3,877    400 ft   oh hey, is _shadows new? i like it
  3,877    400 ft   well, i don't but i like that it exists
  3,966    400 ft   (Inner Light)
  4,156    350 ft   orome has made me incautious with my arrow useage though 
  4,809    350 ft   white wolves are wierdly difficult to spook
  4,809    350 ft   much more so than wargs
  5,527    400 ft   Encountered Boldog, the Merciless
  5,676    400 ft   Slew Boldog, the Merciless
  5,825    450 ft   Encountered Othrod, the Orc Lord
  6,448    400 ft   Found The Spear of Boldog
  6,508    400 ft   Encountered Orcobal, Champion of the Orcs
  6,513    400 ft   (Majesty)
  7,134    500 ft   (Crippling Shot)
  7,684    500 ft   Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  7,696    500 ft   Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  7,706    500 ft   Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  7,717    500 ft   Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
  7,719    500 ft   that's more like it
  8,239    550 ft   (Hardiness)
  8,349    500 ft   ooooh, i like cuivinen
  9,196    550 ft   Slew Othrod, the Orc Lord
  9,734    550 ft   Encountered Uldor, the Accursed
  9,794    550 ft   Slew Uldor, the Accursed
 10,015    550 ft   shot a shadow spider to death in melee range
 10,015    550 ft   with no net damage with no point blank shot
 10,504    600 ft   Encountered Ulfang the Black
 10,546    600 ft   (Poison Resistance)
 10,566    600 ft   Slew Ulfang the Black
 10,740    600 ft   (Keen Senses)
 10,864    600 ft   found a quarterstaff of calacirya
 10,864    600 ft   looks more like artifact territory than special honestly 
 10,864    600 ft   oh wait, this one just generated with <+3> will and song 
 10,972    600 ft   Encountered Delthaur, Balrog of Terror
 10,976    600 ft   i have a balrog next to a shadow spider
 10,976    600 ft   and orome has the room fully illuminated
 10,976    600 ft   this is ridiculous
 11,056    600 ft   Destroyed Delthaur, Balrog of Terror
 12,991    650 ft   Found The Shortbow 'Death's Sting'
 13,046    650 ft   o death where is thy sting-aling-aling
 13,629    700 ft   four =free action on that last level
 13,698    700 ft   (Dexterity)
 13,993    700 ft   Encountered Belegwath, Balrog of Shadow
 13,994    700 ft   i didn't realize disarm could remove cursed weapons!
 13,994    700 ft   thanks belegwath
 13,996    700 ft   who then proceeds to do 40 damage
 13,996    700 ft   only survived because my use-ided !con hadn't run out
 14,045    700 ft   Destroyed Belegwath, Balrog of Shadow
 14,263    700 ft   (Constitution)
 14,707    700 ft   Encountered Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper
 14,709    700 ft   Slew Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper
 14,906    700 ft   Found The War Hammer of Telchar
 15,590    700 ft   (Song of the Trees)
 15,681    750 ft   (Woven Themes)
 16,815    750 ft   Encountered Nan, the Giant
 16,877    750 ft   Encountered Smaug the Golden

 17,156    750 ft   Slain by Smaug the Golden.
 17,156    750 ft   Died on 03 January 2019.

 17,156    750 ft   died to overconfidence
 17,156    750 ft   just as well, a win would have felt unfair



  ['Score' 015082844]


Posted on 4.1.2019 02:54

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On 4.1.2019 02:54 wiwaxia.foliosa@gmail.com wrote:
Blessing of Orome as it is currently is way, way, way too good. +5 light radius is ridiculous at any point in the game - it takes 25 total song for Song of the Trees to give that and with Orome you can shoot and sing. It makes early orcs a complete non-issue, and I was able to coast through what was one of the rougher areas on an earlier version of this build pre-Orome (Nathil on the ladder).

I'm not sure if I like Orome in general. There was a bit in the early game when I just had torches where I was firing arrows just to get a bit of extra light to see by, which is good by my rule of thumb that a good ability should change the way you play, but it's competing with bows of radiance in that department and that becomes less relevant as you get more light. Once you have more constant light radius, it mostly just becomes "do what you ordinarily would, but laugh at shadow-making and light-vulnerable enemies". I do like the idea of it and I'd like to see how it would play with only giving a max of +2 or 3 light, but I'm not convinced.

General 1.4.1 opinions:

I like the expansion of enchantment types, especially for otherwise subpar weapons. Calcirya still seems too good to me. It's strictly better that sceptres of power with light, more damage sides, and an evasion bonus, and it has the chance to generate with +3 to will and song, which seems substantially better than a spear of the Vanyar for singers. Cuivinen is also too good with light + 2 sustains + skill bonus, but I love it from a flavor perspective, especially since it only occurs on daggers, presumably once for hunting. I don't think it should be easy to get permanent light on a weapon and having it on several types undercuts the specialness of spears of the Vanyar. The str/dex swap bows seem kinda bland to me.

Not a fan of !Esgalduin as currently implemented. A bonus of [x] to [y] for [pile of dice] turns seems inelegant and a little too Angband-y, and the poor-elf's !Voice effect doesn't feel coherent with the perception bonus. I don't know of a situation where I'd really need both of those at once, unlike with Miruvor where having all its effects together is a godsend. I like the reference from a flavor perspective but again the implementation isn't working for me.

Didn't really get to play around with sunlight much, but phantoms seem very evocative. I hope there's sunlight at the Gates, that seems like it could be fun.

Modified archery seems good to me. I'm missing flaming arrows against shadows and serpents but otherwise losing it has less of an impact than I expected, although that may just be Orome silliness.

On 4.1.2019 21:23 wiwaxia.foliosa@gmail.com wrote:
Thinking more about Orome and liking it less. Even more than from just a strict gameplay perspective it messes with the aesthetics and theme of Sil by light inflation - you lose a lot of the sense of fumbling around in the dark and the sense of almost-awe I get from the permanent 3 light from a Feanorean Lamp is completely gone. I think even if it were moved to a cost and amount of light comparable to Song of the Trees, the fact that you can have them both would be too much (and it makes more thematic sense for a singer to be able to call up that much light than an archer).

On 4.1.2019 22:58 Quirk wrote:
Thank you very much for the feedback, and doubly for trying Blessing of Orome. I am heartened to have a second opinion on it even if it's a negative one. I initially (at a maximum of 3) thought it would be strong, put it near the top of the tree, and then walked into dark rooms, got hit by arrows flying out of darkness, and felt it was miserable. Playing more extensively with it placed lower down, it felt very strong against darkening enemies even though it takes some time to get to full light. By the point of release I thought it was probably a bit too strong for its position, but I wanted to get it tested and expensive skills don't get tested very much.

Perhaps it's back to the drawing board on that one.

One thing I do dislike though is the experienced-player trick of carrying a second lamp to drop on the floor. This is one of those things which are not at all obvious to newbies, but it can be quite hard to survive some fights without it. Killing this trick without providing extra sources of light feels like it will spike difficulty badly.

On 5.1.2019 05:11 wiwaxia.foliosa@gmail.com wrote:
I'm glad you found the feedback helpful! For what it's worth, I've never had to use that trick (or had the skill to use it well enough to be worth the lost turn), but I tend to very aggressively grab light sources and high protection so my perception of how hard e.g. gwathraukar are may be a little low. For shadow spiders, my gut feeling as a middling-good player is that non-experienced players shouldn't expect to survive a straight fight with them, especially since spider AI means you can consistently run and hide. They are consistently genuinely terrifying across builds, more so than almost any other monster, and that's a gameplay experience I really don't want to lose.

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