[Sil 1.2.1-mpa Character Dump]

 Name   Mithrien      Age    1,448       Str   5 =  3  +1      +1
 Sex    Female        Height  5'10       Dex   3
 Race   Noldor        Weight   141       Con   6 =  4  +1      +1
 House  Finarfin                         Gra   5 =  4          +1

 Game Turn   27,488   Melee (+31,2d15)   Melee       31 = 21  +3  -3 +10
 Exp Pool       236   Bows    (+9,1d9)   Archery      9 =  0  +3  -1  +7
 Total Exp   87,336           (+9,1d9)   Evasion     22 = 18  +3  +1
 Burden       128.7   Armor [+22,6-20]   Stealth    -11 =  0  +3  -4 -10
 Max Burden   248.7                      Perception  18 = 12  +5      +1
 Depth           0'   Health     30:59   Will        17 = 12  +5
 Min Depth       0'   Voice      27:49   Smithing     5 =  0  +5
 Light Radius     8   Song     Slaying   Song        17 = 12  +5
                             Sharpness
 You are one of several children of a bard from the house of Finarfin.
 You have light blue eyes, wavy golden hair, and a fair complexion.






  [Last Messages]

> It fires an arrow.
> The Vampire lord flees in terror!
> You hit Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst.
> Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst bites you.
> You have been poisoned.
> Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst bites you.
> You have been badly poisoned.
> You hit Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst.
> Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst misses you.
> You hit Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst.
> You have slain Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst.
> The Vampire moves through your zone of control.
> You hit the Vampire.
> The Vampire flees in terror!
> Excessive skills!


  [Screenshot]

  .......
  ~...#..
  ~~.....
  .~.@...
  .~~...#
  ..~~...
  ...~...


  [Equipment]

a) a Glaive of Nargothrond (-2,2d9) [+1] 7.5 lb
   It slays dragons and raukar.  It requires both hands to wield
   it properly.  It counts as a type of polearm.  
b) a Shortbow of Quickness (+0,1d7) 2.0 lb
   It grants you the ability: Rapid Fire.  It can shoot arrows
   13 squares (with your current strength).
c) a Sapphire Ring of Frost
   It provides resistance to fire.  
d) a Bloodstone Ring of Accuracy (+2)
e) an Amber Amulet of Constitution <+1>
   It increases your constitution by 1.  It sustains your 
   constitution.  
f) a Silmaril
   It sustains your grace.  It grants you the ability to see
   invisible creatures.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
g) The Hauberk of Maedhros (-2) [-3,2d6]
   It provides resistance to fire and poison.  It cannot be
   harmed by the elements.  
h) a Cloak of Warmth [+2]
   It provides resistance to cold.  
i) (nothing)
j) a Jewelled Crown of Command
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It grants you the
   ability: Song of Mastery.  
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Strength (-1) [+0,1d2] <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  
l) a Pair of Boots of Speed [+0,1d2]
   It grants you the ability: Sprinting.  
m) 74 Arrows of Piercing
   They cut easily through armour.  They can be shot 13 squares
   (with your current strength and bow).
n) 29 Arrows (+3)
   They can be shot 13 squares (with your current strength and bow).


  [Inventory]

a) 9 Russet Herbs of Rage
b) a Grey Herb of Healing
c) a Dark Green Herb of Restoration
d) 7 Fragments of Lembas
e) 6 Smoky Potions of Clarity
f) a Milky White Potion of Healing
g) 3 Shimmering Potions of Voice
h) 5 Sparkling Potions of Strength
i) a Cloudy Potion of Dexterity
j) a Dark Blue Potion of Constitution
k) 5 Brown Potions of Grace
l) an Ivory Horn of Blasting
m) 2 Turquoise Rings of Strength <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  It sustains your strength.  
   
n) 3 Emerald Rings of Dexterity <+1>
   It increases your dexterity by 1.  It sustains your dexterity.
   
o) a Feanorian Lamp
p) 2 Silmarils
   It sustains your grace.  It grants you the ability to see
   invisible creatures.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
q) a Great Helm of Clarity [-2,1d4]
   It provides resistance to confusion, stunning, and 
   hallucination.  
r) a Pair of Greaves of Free Action [+0,1d2]
   It grants you freedom of movement.  
s) 4 Spears of the Vanyar (-1,1d10) <+1> 12.0 lb
   It increases your grace by 1.  It can be thrown effectively
   (9 squares) and lights the dungeon around you.  It does extra
   damage when wielded with both hands.  It counts as a type of
   polearm.  
t) a Glaive (Defender) (-2,2d10) [+2] 6.0 lb
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It requires both hands
   to wield it properly.  It counts as a type of polearm.  
u) a Mattock (-5,5d2) <+2> 15.0 lb
   It improves your tunneling by 2.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  


  [Abilities]

Power
Polearm Mastery
Zone of Control
Knock Back
Strength
Parry
Crowd Fighting
Heavy Armour Use
Focused attack
Concentration
Master Hunter
Grace
Hardiness
Poison Resistance
Critical Resistance
Constitution
Song of Slaying
Song of the Trees
Song of Sharpness
Woven Themes


  [Artefacts]

The Leather Armour of Gorlim (found)
The Hauberk of Maedhros (found)
The Round Shield of Angrod 
The Kite Shield of Hador 
The Dagger 'Angrist' (found)
The Shortsword of Amrod (found)
The Longsword 'Orcrist' (found)
The Bastard Sword 'Anglachel' (found)
The Greatsword 'Glend' (found)
The Greatsword 'Calris' (found)
The Deathblade 'Delmereth' (found)
The Spear of Boldog (found)
The Great Helm of Utumno 
The Wolf-Hame of Draugluin (found)
The Bat-Fell of Thuringwethil (found)
The Shortbow of Celegorm (found)
The Pair of Boots of Finrod 
The Pair of Boots of Irime 
The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth (found)


  [Enemies]

  2 /  3  Orc scout                               
 11 / 12  Wolf                                    
  7 / 10  Grey mold                               
  8 / 10  Giant bat                               
 15 / 17  White worm mass                         
 18 / 20  Orc soldier                             
  3 /  4  Brown mold                              
  2 /  2  Metallic green centipede                
 22 / 23  White wolf                              
 22 / 22  Crebain                                 
 10 / 10  Orc archer                              
  0 /  4  Violet mold                             
  6 /  7  Sword spider                            
  6 /  6  Hummerhorn                              
 41 / 59  Orc warrior                             
  2 /  2  Gorcrow                                 
  3 /  4  Clear worm mass                         
 12 / 13  Orc thief                               
  2 /  3  Shadow mold                             
  5 /  5  Metallic red centipede                  
  9 / 11  Easterling spy                          
 14 / 43  Orc champion                            
  6 /  6  Violet worm mass                        
 10 / 12  Mountain troll                          
  7 /  7  Grave wight                             
 22 / 25  Easterling warrior                      
  (slain) Boldog, the Merciless 
  6 / 19  Orc captain                             
 15 / 17  Distended spider                        
  5 /  6  Giant green dragonfly                   
 13 / 21  Easterling archer                       
101 /132  Shadow worm mass                        
 22 / 23  Warg                                    
  4 /  4  Barrow wight                            
  7 /  9  Giant violet dragonfly                  
  (slain) Uldor, the Accursed 
  (slain) Orcobal, Champion of the Orcs 
 17 / 17  Snow troll                              
  2 /  3  Giant bronze dragonfly                  
  0 /  1  Lurking horror                          
 12 / 14  Giant                                   
  (slain) Ulfang the Black 
  (slain) Othrod, the Orc Lord 
 13 / 66  Nether worm mass                        
  4 /  6  Shadow bat                              
  5 / 10  Sulrauko                                
  6 /  7  Fire-drake hatchling                    
  (slain) Duruin, Least of the Balrogs 
 16 / 18  Werewolf                                
  8 / 11  Shadow spider                           
  1 /  4  Shadow                                  
  1 /  1  Sapphire serpent                        
  (slain) Nan, the Giant 
  7 /  9  Cave troll                              
  4 /  4  Ruby serpent                            
  2 /  2  Creeping horror                         
  6 /  6  Ringrauko                               
  4 /  7  Emerald serpent                         
  6 / 13  Oathwraith                              
 80 / 86  Cat warrior                             
 14 / 17  Greater werewolf                        
  4 /  5  Amethyst serpent                        
  6 /  8  Kemenrauko                              
  2 /  4  Young cold-drake                        
  3 /  3  Grotesque                               
  (slain) Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper 
  3 /  4  Spider of Gorgoroth                     
 99 /118  Troll guard                             
  8 / 10  Adamant serpent                         
  8 / 15  Lesser vampire                          
  2 / 19  Cat assassin                            
  (slain) Scatha the Worm 
  (slain) Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo 
  3 /  5  Young fire-drake                        
  6 /  6  Darting horror                          
  9 / 17  Unmourned                               
 32 / 39  Ururauko                                
  (slain) The Deathblade 'Delmereth' 
  (slain) Tevildo, Prince of Cats 
  (slain) Turkano, Balrog of the Hosts 
 10 / 11  Ancient sapphire serpent                
 34 / 59  Vampire                                 
  1 /  3  Nameless thing                          
  (slain) Dagorhir, the Elfbane 
  3 /  3  Ancient ruby serpent                    
  4 /  4  Great cold-drake                        
  0 /  3  Silent watcher                          
 32 / 49  Gwathrauko                              
  (slain) Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves 
  (seen)  Vallach, Balrog of Sudden Flame 
  9 /  9  Ancient spider                          
 13 / 14  Ancient emerald serpent                 
 23 / 35  Vampire lord                            
  2 /  6  Ancient amethyst serpent                
  1 /  2  Great fire-drake                        
 33 / 42  Hithrauko                               
  (slain) Lungorthin, Lord of Balrogs 
  1 /  3  Ancient adamant serpent                 
  2 /  6  Unrelenting horror                      
  (slain) Ancalagon the Black 
  (slain) Thuringwethil, the Vampire Messenger 
  (seen)  Glaurung, the Deceiver 
  (slain) Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth 
  (seen)  Morgoth, Lord of Darkness 
  (slain) Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst 


  [Notes]

Mithrien of the Noldor
Entered Angband on 29 May 2014

   Turn     Depth   Note

     45     50 ft   (Concentration)
    862    100 ft   (Polearm Mastery)
  2,030    200 ft   (Zone of Control)
  2,176    200 ft   (Focused attack)
  3,407    300 ft   (Crowd Fighting)
  4,325    350 ft   (Song of the Trees)
  4,742    350 ft   Encountered Boldog, the Merciless
  4,765    350 ft   Slew Boldog, the Merciless
  4,765    350 ft   Found The Spear of Boldog
  5,645    400 ft   (Heavy Armour Use)
  6,765    450 ft   Encountered Orcobal, Champion of the Orcs
  6,798    450 ft   Slew Orcobal, Champion of the Orcs
  7,053    450 ft   (Hardiness)
  8,199    500 ft   Encountered Othrod, the Orc Lord
  8,235    500 ft   Slew Othrod, the Orc Lord
  8,235    500 ft   Found The Longsword 'Orcrist'
  8,323    500 ft   Encountered Ulfang the Black
  8,373    500 ft   Slew Ulfang the Black
 10,053    550 ft   (Critical Resistance)
 10,518    600 ft   Encountered Duruin, Least of the Balrogs
 10,615    600 ft   Destroyed Duruin, Least of the Balrogs
 12,075    650 ft   (Master Hunter)
 12,162    650 ft   Found The Leather Armour of Gorlim
 12,330    650 ft   (Song of Slaying)
 12,980    700 ft   Found The Bastard Sword 'Anglachel'
 13,311    700 ft   Encountered Nan, the Giant
 13,322    700 ft   Slew Nan, the Giant
 13,322    700 ft   Found The Greatsword 'Glend'
 13,486    700 ft   Found The Greatsword 'Calris'
 13,493    700 ft   -_- three awesome two handed swords and no glaives
 14,405    750 ft   Encountered Tevildo, Prince of Cats
 14,407    750 ft   Encountered Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
 14,425    750 ft   Slew Tevildo, Prince of Cats
 14,444    750 ft   Slew Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
 15,745    750 ft   Encountered Turkano, Balrog of the Hosts
 15,830    750 ft   Destroyed Turkano, Balrog of the Hosts
 15,951    800 ft   (Grace)
 16,087    800 ft   Encountered Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper
 16,159    800 ft   Slew Umuiyan, the Doorkeeper
 16,222    800 ft   (Power)
 16,222    800 ft   (Knock Back)
 16,578    800 ft   Encountered Scatha the Worm
 16,596    800 ft   Slew Scatha the Worm
 16,723    800 ft   Found The Shortbow of Celegorm
 16,898    800 ft   Encountered The Deathblade 'Delmereth'
 16,903    800 ft   Subdued The Deathblade 'Delmereth'
 16,903    800 ft   Found The Deathblade 'Delmereth'
 17,692    850 ft   (Song of Sharpness)
 18,163    850 ft   (Parry)
 19,659    900 ft   Encountered Dagorhir, the Elfbane
 19,679    900 ft   Slew Dagorhir, the Elfbane
 20,107    900 ft   Found The Dagger 'Angrist'
 22,055    950 ft   (Poison Resistance)
 22,637    950 ft   (Strength)
 22,872    950 ft   Found The Shortsword of Amrod
 23,859    950 ft   Found The Hauberk of Maedhros
 24,026    950 ft   Encountered Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves
 24,063    950 ft   Slew Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves
 24,063    950 ft   Found The Wolf-Hame of Draugluin
 24,832    950 ft   Entered the Hoard of the Worm of Greed
 24,889    950 ft   Encountered Glaurung, the Deceiver
 25,038  1,000 ft   Entered Morgoth's throne room
 25,041  1,000 ft   Encountered Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth
 25,041  1,000 ft   Encountered Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
 25,042  1,000 ft   Encountered Thuringwethil, the Vampire Messenger
 25,045  1,000 ft   Encountered Lungorthin, Lord of Balrogs
 25,047  1,000 ft   Encountered Ancalagon the Black
 25,062  1,000 ft   Slew Thuringwethil, the Vampire Messenger
 25,062  1,000 ft   Found The Bat-Fell of Thuringwethil
 25,064  1,000 ft   (Woven Themes)
 25,070  1,000 ft   Found The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth
 25,077  1,000 ft   Destroyed Lungorthin, Lord of Balrogs
 25,084  1,000 ft   Slew Ancalagon the Black
 25,088  1,000 ft   Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
 25,089  1,000 ft   Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
 25,093  1,000 ft   Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
 25,094  1,000 ft   Slew Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth
 25,417    850 ft   (Constitution)
 26,012    550 ft   Encountered Uldor, the Accursed
 26,067    500 ft   pushed Uldor into the abyss. HELL YEAH
 26,253    500 ft   Slew Uldor, the Accursed
 26,516    400 ft   hmm. push Uldor into the abyss and he shows up one level 
 26,516    400 ft   higher...
 26,598    400 ft   Encountered Vallach, Balrog of Sudden Flame
 27,287     Gates   Entered The Gates of Angband
 27,464     Gates   Encountered Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst
 27,480     Gates   Slew Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst

 27,488     Gates   You escaped the Iron Hells on 02 June 2014.
 27,488     Gates   You brought back all three Silmarils from Morgoth's 
                    crown! 




  ['Score' 041372512]

Posted on 2.6.2014 01:59

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322. on the Sil Ladder (of 2253)

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On 2.6.2014 01:59 skadefryd wrote:
Played a Noldor Finarfin. I wanted to take advantage of the perception affinity, so I poked around a bit, learned that Focused Attack and Concentration make for an unusual playstyle (focus on one enemy at a time, pause between attacks), and combined them with Polearm Mastery and Knock Back. The plan was straightforward: receive charges from enemies, hit them with the sick Concentration bonus, knock them back, repeat.

Unfortunately, this didn't play out terribly well, I suspect for a number of reasons:

-Polearms are quite weak. A spear can apparently be made quite good with Finesse and emphasis on crits but, but glaives lend themselves better to strength. Furthermore, there are comparatively few artifact polearms (I think I saw one during the entire game). I realize this is a design decision––swords are emphasized in Tolkien much more than polearms are––but it still seems like there should be room for a compromise. For example, surely a glaive should be as damaging as a greatsword (it's a heavy hafted weapon). An additional option would be to give polearms reach, perhaps bundled with Polearm Mastery, so keeping foes at bay is actually viable.

-The "stand still and await your foes" playstyle is very hard to use. First, especially during the escape, the supply of enemies is effectively limitless. You will never kill them all, so you need to keep moving toward the exit. The best strategy appears to be one that allows you to fight on the move, like Flanking or archery, or avoid fighting altogether, like with stealth or songs. Second, archers, dragons, serpents, and other enemies with strong or persistent range weapons are completely deadly. You have to move toward them: there is no way to force them to engage you in melee, and you actually need to turn off Knock Back to fight them effectively (which is annoying). You can throw weapons at them if you've got enough or make a substantial investment in archery, I guess.

An idea I had was to incorporate some kind of taunting mechanic. The most obvious, elegant, and perhaps Tolkien-esque way to do this is with another song, one that causes monsters to attempt to fight you up close in lieu of attacking you from afar. Call it "Song of Blood" or something: confident or aggressive enemies (if they're aware of you) use their Will to resist becoming "Enraged", and "Enraged" monsters close the distance with you and attempt to fight you face to face. The constraint that only wary, confident or aggressive monsters become "Enraged" means that fear mechanics are still useful and that extra points in singing don't actually make the song a liability (by attracting too many foes). They might also be susceptible to triggering traps on the way to you or lose their pack behavior. I might make a post about this idea on the forum. Polearms could become very useful with an ability like this.

-The ascent is absolutely terrifying. I suppose this is a design choice and a good thing. Running into Morgoth or hearing the sound of singing really makes you stop, sit back, and consider your available exits, but it leads to the paradox that simply killing Morgoth in the throne room (which isn't terribly hard) is a much safer option than avoiding him during the escape. I feel like Morgoth should appear every other level at most, or perhaps he should be constrained to appear on the stairs you just left (if the idea is that he's following you).

Still really fun. I'll probably follow Phaethon's (et al.) build for a Noldor FĂ«anor next.

On 2.6.2014 02:10 skadefryd wrote:
Second highest score among non-Morgoth killers. Not bad, if I do say so myself!

On 2.6.2014 02:43 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Congrats!

On 2.6.2014 08:00 locus wrote:
Killing Morgoth in the throne room isn't terribly hard, you say?!??!?!? It could stand to be harder, but avoiding him on the ascent is still much easier than killing him. Sometimes you have godlike skills/equip and can do it, but in that case you could just plow through everything else on the ascent anyway.

On 2.6.2014 10:23 skadefryd wrote:
I'm not so sure––I feel like with any sufficiently strong melee setup, if you've got enough !Con and healing, you might as well hang out in the throne room and wail on him until he croaks, because if he finds you elsewhere (where you don't have the benefit of a relatively limited number of henchmen, don't know when he's coming, and don't have a massive Slaying bonus for at least a few rounds), he will kick your ass. Getting past his regen is the tough part (I simply could not do it with this build).

On 2.6.2014 10:32 taptap wrote:
Tried wrath items? Horn of warning?

On 2.6.2014 11:50 skadefryd wrote:
Didn't find any this run. How do they work? From the description, I'd imagine they simply cause unwary opponents to become wary.

On 2.6.2014 15:07 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Wrath makes you like a monster magnet... even pack monsters will happily wade in hallways to 1v1 you. Horns of warning do the same thing. Playing Monster Magnet in the background sometimes has the same effect...



On 2.6.2014 15:35 skadefryd wrote:
Seems more or less right up my alley. Do dragons and serpents (etc.) still use their ranged attacks?

On 2.6.2014 16:30 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
I imagine so, but not entirely sure. I can't recall ever using the horn of warning for anything other than orcs, and that doesn't seem to make the orc archers act any differently that I've noticed.

On 2.6.2014 16:56 skadefryd wrote:
Yeah, a song or item that causes archers to suddenly forget that they are trained to shoot from afar rather than walk up and get mowed down in melee might be a bit farfetched.

As it stands, the whole Concentration/Focus/polearm build idea is based around creating distance between you and your opponent via Knock Back or Controlled Retreat, then waiting for them to close the distance with you, triggering the Polearm Mastery free attack with a sick Concentration bonus. (Not sure if the Controlled Retreat attack lets you keep the Focus bonus or whether it qualifies as a "move" rather than an "attack" and breaks the bonus.)

Archers will simply never do this, and dragons and serpents don't have to––they're happy to sit a square away from you and roast, freeze, poison, or, uh, darkness-ify you, as the case may be. This means you've got to move toward them (or, of course, disable Knock Back), and killing them becomes much harder. In the case of archers, with no Sprinting (Dodging is a waste for the Knock Back variant of this build) or archery skill, you have to rely on a handful of thrown weapons (or clever manipulation of the AI, door use, speed potions, etc.) in a pinch.

Not that I'm complaining. Having to adjust your strategy for ranged attackers (or just run away, in the case of dragons) seems like a good design decision––no sense being able to put the game on autopilot and mow down all comers without thinking. I only raised this particular idea because polearms seem quite underpowered as is, and a build like this seems to be a good way to capitalize on them.

On 2.6.2014 17:13 skadefryd wrote:
Side question––some winners seem to get by with many fewer abilities than I had. Do you think some were unnecessary? Zone of Control didn't do me a terrible amount of good (I think it might actually break the Focus bonus), I only took Parry because I had a Defender glaive, Strength doesn't help much for polearms, and I nabbed Poison Resistance before I found Maedhros (keeping !slow poison on hand makes poison resistance not that necessary). The extra grace point doesn't seem to have mattered much, and I'm not sold on Master Hunter. With Hardiness, Crit Resistance, and Heavy Armor Use together, physical attacks weren't bothering me at all, barring Morgoth.

Ah, hell, do I even know what I'm doing in this game? :P

On 2.6.2014 17:42 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
You might find this thread interesting. Bron was the first that I can recall making polearm fighting really work, and this was after the game was out for quite a while. He made extensive notes, with some follow up discussion, here: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=5897







On 2.6.2014 17:45 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
As far as wasted abilities... I suppose the grace point would be the first I'd axe. I dunno, it all looks good to me. If parry floated you through a tough mid-game then it did its job. Master Hunter is fun, but yeah, it just takes a fight you are going to win and makes it easier. Your list looks a lot like the perception warriors I've played, except I never tried polearms/ZoC with any success.

On 2.6.2014 20:54 taptap wrote:
Is woven themes + two songs any good with the nerfed woven themes and nerfed song of sharpness?

On 3.6.2014 11:25 skadefryd wrote:
Yeah, the grace point was pure greed––I figured I might grab it as long as I could get it cheap due to perception affinity, but it didn't seem to help much.

I'm not sure how helpful the sharpness/slaying was over straight sharpness or slaying. Would appreciate any comments. Anecdotally, it seems to have helped. Against an enemy with high protection (isn't Morgoth's something like 6d5?), any sharpness helps.

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