The Angband Ladder: clouded, Sindar Doriath no-class by clouded

  [Sil 1.1.0 Character Dump]

 Name   clouded       Age    2,333       Str   3 =  1  +2
 Sex    Female        Height    6'       Dex   6 =  4          +2
 Race   Sindar        Weight   164       Con   5 =  4  +1
 House  Doriath                          Gra   3

 Game Turn   35,183   Melee  (+18,2d7)   Melee       18 =  0  +6  +1 +11
 Exp Pool     6,902   Bows  (+25,1d10)   Archery     25 = 20  +6  +1  -2
 Total Exp   79,202         (+25,1d10)   Evasion     14 =  7  +6  +1
 Burden       126.8   Armor [+14,5-16]   Stealth     19 = 13  +6
 Max Burden   172.8                      Perception  11 =  8  +3
 Depth           0'   Health     49:49   Will         7 =  4  +3
 Min Depth       0'   Voice      69:69   Smithing     5 =  2  +3
 Light Radius     8                      Song        14 = 10  +3      +1

 You are one of several children of a Sindar archer. You have light
 grey eyes, wavy black hair, and a fair complexion.






  [Last Messages]

> The Arrow (+3) hits Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!!
> Your shot cripples Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!
> You have 70 Arrows (+3) (m).
> The Arrow (+3) hits Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!
> Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst flees in terror!
> You have 69 Arrows (+3) (m).
> The Arrow (+3) pierces Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!
> The Arrow breaks.
> You have 68 Arrows (+3) (m).
> The Arrow (+3) hits Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!
> Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst dies.
> You end your song.
> You feel yourself slow down.
> Your strength returns to normal.
> Your dexterity returns to normal.


  [Screenshot]

  .......
  ~...#..
  ~~.....
  .~.@...
  .~~...#
  ..~~...
  ...~...


  [Equipment]

a) a Longsword (Defender) (+0,2d5) [+2] 2.8 lb
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
b) a Longbow of Radiance (+0,1d10) [-1] 3.6 lb
   It fires shining arrows.  It can shoot arrows 15 squares
   (with your current strength).
c) a Jet Ring of Strength <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  It sustains your strength.  
   
d) a Sapphire Ring of Accuracy (+2)
e) The Jewel 'Elessar' <+1>
   It increases your constitution by 1.  It speeds your
   regeneration (which also increases your hunger).  It cannot
   be harmed by the elements.  It grants you the ability: 
   Strength in Adversity.  
f) a Silmaril
   It sustains your grace.  It grants you the ability to see
   invisible creatures.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
g) Leather Armour [+0,1d4]
h) a Cloak of Stealth [+1] <+2>
   It improves your stealth by 2.  
i) The Kite Shield of Hador (-1) [+0,1d6]
   It provides resistance to cold and fire.  It cannot be harmed
   by the elements.  
j) a Helm of Brilliance [-1,1d2]
   It lights the dungeon around you.  
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Strength [+0,1d2] <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  
l) a Pair of Boots [+0,1d2]
m) 68 Arrows (+3)
   They can be shot 15 squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) 39 Arrows of Piercing
   They cut easily through armour.  They can be shot 15 squares
   (with your current strength and bow).


  [Inventory]

a) 8 Mottled Herbs of Rage
b) 4 Thorny Herbs of Restoration
c) 5 Fragments of Lembas
d) 9 Flasks of oil
e) 11 Clear Potions of Miruvor
f) 14 Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor
g) 6 Violet Potions of Healing
h) 5 Dark Green Potions of Quickness
i) 2 Sparkling Potions of Strength
j) 4 Bright Orange Potions of Dexterity
k) 3 Crimson Potions of Constitution
l) a Runed Staff of Understanding (4 charges)
m) a Golden Staff of Treasures (3 charges)
n) a Rosewood Staff of Foes (0 charges)
o) an Ashen Staff of Recharging (1 charge)
p) a Silver Ring of Frost
   It provides resistance to fire.  
q) a Turquoise Ring of Free Action
   It grants you freedom of movement.  
r) a Trident of Gondolin (+0,1d9) [+1] 5.0 lb
   It slays orcs and trolls.  It can be thrown effectively (4
   squares).  It does extra damage when wielded with both hands.
   It counts as a type of polearm.  
s) a Mattock (-5,5d2) <+2> 12.7 lb
   It improves your tunneling by 2.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  
t) a Shortbow of Radiance (+1,1d7) 1.7 lb
   It fires shining arrows.  It can shoot arrows 10 squares
   (with your current strength).
u) a Longbow of Radiance (+0,1d9) [-1] 3.3 lb
   It fires shining arrows.  It can shoot arrows 13 squares
   (with your current strength).
v) 98 Arrows
   They can be shot 15 squares (with your current strength and bow).


  [Notes]

clouded of the Sindar
Entered Angband on 16 Sep 2012

    Turn     Depth    Note

       0     50 ft    (Weaponsmith)
       0     50 ft    (Versatility)
     640    100 ft    Made a Longbow (+0,1d9) [-1]  2.4 lb
     651    100 ft    Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
     661    100 ft    Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
   1,586    200 ft    (Song of Elbereth)
   1,816    200 ft    (Precision)
   2,199    200 ft    Made a Shortbow (+0,1d7)  1.1 lb
   2,210    200 ft    Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
   2,220    200 ft    Made 24 Arrows  2.4 lb
   2,390    200 ft    found a 1lb, 1d8 shortbow.
   2,416    200 ft    feeling to nervous to explore this town vault without 
                      keen senses 
   2,634    200 ft    oh hey
   2,634    200 ft    helm of brilliance
   3,411    250 ft    (Keen Senses)
   4,244    300 ft    Slew Gorgol, the Butcher
   5,630    350 ft    (Dodging)
   5,630    350 ft    (Sprinting)
   6,082    350 ft    Slew Boldog, the Merciless
   6,296    350 ft    got a shortbow of radiance this floor
   6,296    350 ft    also found a lot of gondolin weapons
   6,638    350 ft    (Dexterity)
   7,736    400 ft    this 400' was quite small
   7,736    400 ft    not much bigger than a 50' is
   8,261    450 ft    (Crippling Shot)
   8,319    450 ft    Slew Uldor, the Accursed
   8,899    450 ft    Slew Orcobal, Champion of the Orcs
   9,006    450 ft    gauntlets of strength from orcobal
   9,219    450 ft    had to lure out these barrow wights, couldn't kill 
                      them 
   9,219    450 ft    got some nice potions from it
   9,573    500 ft    (Focused attack)
   9,573    500 ft    (Concentration)
   9,693    500 ft    Slew Gilim, the Giant of Eruman
   9,806    500 ft    ack
   9,806    500 ft    orc captain pack came up the stairs and surrounded me
   9,812    500 ft    good thing I have Gondolin
   9,880    500 ft    oh god that was close
   9,880    500 ft    I got trapped inbetween a snow troll and a sulrauko
   9,880    500 ft    and after killing the snow troll, fled into darkness 
                      right into 
   9,880    500 ft    a firedrake
   9,898    500 ft    think I need to start getting some stealth
   9,944    500 ft    (Disguise)
  11,350    550 ft    (Careful Shot)
  12,001    550 ft    Slew Ulfang the Black
  13,545    550 ft    (Vanish)
  13,678    550 ft    I don't know why I bothered to get vanish
  13,678    550 ft    fucking useless right now
  15,042    600 ft    Destroyed Delthaur, Balrog of Terror
  15,879    650 ft    found shield of Hador
  15,906    650 ft    shit
  16,130    650 ft    oh my god
  16,130    650 ft    can I vanish please??? against anything???
  17,157    700 ft    (Curse Breaking)
  17,242    700 ft    Found The Kite Shield of Hador (from 650 ft)
  17,560    700 ft    Found The Shortbow 'Death's Sting'
  20,795    800 ft    (Dexterity)
  21,239    800 ft    Found The Leather Armour 'Catskin'
  22,076    800 ft    Spotted Turkano
  22,076    800 ft    too much effort to kill him on this char
  22,175    850 ft    (Exchange Places)
  22,359    850 ft    (Song of Slaying)
  22,359    850 ft    (Song of Sharpness)
  23,895    850 ft    eek
  23,911    850 ft    cat prince unique, not going near those guysd
  24,389    850 ft    (Flaming Arrows)
  25,633    950 ft    Found The Jewel 'Elessar'
  25,777    950 ft    (Mind Over Body)
  27,619    950 ft    (Unwavering Voice)
  28,846    950 ft    argh maprot traps
  29,056  1,000 ft    (Rapid Fire)
  29,056  1,000 ft    Entered Morgoth's throne room
  29,262  1,000 ft    (Eye for Detail)
  29,850  1,000 ft    Found The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth
  29,921  1,000 ft    Destroyed Gothmog, High Captain of Balrogs
  31,073  1,000 ft    Slew Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves
  31,153  1,000 ft    hm, Vallach came to the party...
  31,153  1,000 ft    that's unfortunate
  31,330  1,000 ft    Destroyed Vallach, Balrog of Sudden Flame
  31,407  1,000 ft    Slew Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
  31,407  1,000 ft    Found The Mighty Hammer 'Grond'
  31,591  1,000 ft    Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
  31,795    950 ft    (Song of Silence)
  32,642    900 ft    this is going to take forever
  32,977    700 ft    two shafts in a row, good fortune
  33,306    550 ft    everytime I see a Sulrauko on the silrun I think for a 
                      moment  
  33,306    550 ft    that it is Lungorthin
  33,919    350 ft    Slew Maeglin, Betrayer of Gondolin
  35,078     Gates    Entered The Gates of Angband
  35,146     Gates    Slew Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst

  35,182     Gates    You escaped the Iron Hells on 16 September 2012.
  35,182     Gates    You brought back a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown!




  ['Score' 141164817]


Posted on 16.9.2012 21:45
Last updated on 17.9.2012 01:04

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275. on the Sil Ladder (of 2253)

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On 16.9.2012 21:45 clouded wrote:
Vanish simply does not seem useful at all before having huge stealth. I feel I have a decent invesment of stealth on this character for this point in the dungeon - my second highest skill (note: I have stealth mode activated in the dump). Against things that were very difficult to vanish from before (cats, werewolves) it is basically impossible, against dumb stuff (trolls, spiders, serpents) it takes so much effort and space gained, I'm not sure it's even worth bothering with. I have tried a few techniques while using it, including switching stealth mode on, standing still.

Stealth does need nerfs so it's for the greater good, but it's frustrating to have an ability and feel like it does nothing.

On 16.9.2012 23:00 clouded wrote:
Now I have natural 19 stealth. Yes it's better now, but this is at 950ft...

On 17.9.2012 00:03 Scatha wrote:
Part of the idea of the change was to give more of a reward for Stealth specialists, but while I think the general direction of the change was good we haven't tested the exact numbers carefully, so there's still room for tweaking and this feedback is really useful.

Do you know how high your stealth was at the point you didn't find it all that effective? 19 seems like a respectable stealth score, but not super-high for the endgame. Also, how much of a difference did you notice with the "round a corner and hide" tricks? Did you give it a couple of turns in those cases?

On 17.9.2012 00:56 clouded wrote:
Scatha: I certainly agree with the general gist of the change. Mainly, my problem is; it doesn't feel like it has worth before a magic number of stealth (which seems to be ~20), and that that number is a fair bit higher than the stealth required for things generally not noticing you (with stealth mode, or silence).

My stealth on the first dump was 14 (without stealth mode). I finished with 19 and it felt right at that level, so the high end I would say is okay. For hiding around corners I would give it a few turns, which works with the stealth I ended with, but I found not with 14, unless I gained great distance (enough that it was probably quicker to try and kill them instead).



On 17.9.2012 01:04 clouded wrote:
Anyway, here's the winning dump. I actually feel a little embarrased to upload it.

To describe my fight(s) with Morgoth: It was a bit tricky. The first fight, I did not prepare myself entirely well, but still gave a good fist of it, getting him moderately damaged. However I had to abandon because the rest of the throne room had gained ground to me. After that, everything was all over the place and I had to clean up, killing a few balrogs along the way. When I had a clear throne room I went for a second attempt. Again I didn't do it properly, forgetting I had flaming arrows for half the fight! After I remembered, Morgoth was close enough to hit me with earthquakes, but I managed to finally put him to rest when he was only one space away! Quite fun...



On 17.9.2012 02:17 clouded wrote:
Thinking a little more about vanish, I think the problem is that the requirement is so low. If it were higher, 12-13 or even more, it would encourage such high stealth and give a much higher chance that it will be useful when the player can first take it.

On 17.9.2012 02:56 clouded wrote:
Comparing this vanish throne room compared to the last version, it's certainly more balanced. I couldn't control everything as well, I could still vanish from groups, but the closest few things would usually be able to get to me (vampires were good at that). Morgoth (and Gothmog) seemed pretty tough to vanish from when he was fairly close.

On 17.9.2012 07:43 Fendell Orcbane wrote:
I think that Vanish works fine...its just that you need to pump that stealth up. The problem with wolves is that they are faster than you most of the time so you have a hard time getting around a corner. I just pick up Vanish later in the game and get the Dex point first.

Did Vanish help you during the escape? I usually have 20 plus points before I get my first Sil.

BTW I think you might have been able to kill the Cat uniques...basically if you have some room you can kill them before they get close : ) Archery works well against cats in general...just don't a) run out of arrows and B) get surrounded by them.

On 17.9.2012 19:01 clouded wrote:
Vanish wasn't so useful during the escape, but that's why I took song of silence. Things tend not to notice you while singing that and stealthing even with their heightened perception.

I was too afraid to fight the cat uniques because they were in a spot that was tough to get long shots at them, and not close enough to stairs for my tastes.

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