The Angband Ladder: clouded, Edain Haleth no-class by clouded

  [Sil 1.0.2 Character Dump]

 Name   clouded       Age       32       Str   1
 Sex    Female        Height  5'11       Dex   7 =  3          +4
 Race   Edain         Weight   149       Con   3 =  2  +1
 House  Haleth                           Gra   6 =  3          +3

 Game Turn   20,166   Melee  (+23,1d5)   Melee       23 = 17  +7  +2  -3
 Exp Pool     3,548          (+23,1d5)   Archery      9 =  0  +7  +2
 Total Exp   71,248   Bows    (+9,0d0)   Evasion     23 = 13  +7  +3
 Burden        79.7   Armor  [+23,3-4]   Stealth     28 = 12  +7  +8  +1
 Max Burden   120.0                      Perception  21 =  9  +6  +6
 Depth           0'   Health     34:34   Will        11 =  5  +6
 Min Depth       0'   Voice    119:119   Smithing     6 =  0  +6
 Light Radius     6                      Song        15 =  9  +6

 You are one of several children of a farmer. You were a well liked
 child. You have brown eyes, straight black hair, and an average
 complexion.





  [Last Messages]

> You climb out of the pit.
> It has a gentle warmth, and a taste as of flowers.
> The bleeding slows.
> You feel much better.
> You have 10 Clear Potions of Miruvor (f).
> The bleeding stops.
> You have found a trap. <4x>
> You have 2 Crimson Potions of Grace (m).
> You feel more agile.
> You have a Sparkling Blue Potion of Dexterity (l).
> You feel yourself moving faster!
> You have 4 Pale Green Potions of Quickness (i).
> You have 2 Dark Blue Potions of Elemental Resistance (j).
> Your strength returns to normal.
> You feel less weak.


  [Screenshot]

  .......
  ~...#..
  ~~.....
  .~.@...
  .~~...#
  ..~~...
  ...~...


  [Equipment]

a) The Dagger 'Angrist' (+0,1d5) 0.8 lb
   It cuts very easily through armour.  It can be thrown
   effectively (8 squares).  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.  
b) (nothing)
c) a Marble Ring of Perception <+4>
   It improves your perception by 4.  
d) an Emerald Ring of Accuracy (+3)
e) a Golden Amulet of Constitution <+1>
   It increases your constitution by 1.  It sustains your 
   constitution.  
f) a Silmaril
   It sustains your grace.  It grants you the ability to see
   invisible creatures.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
g) a Robe of Protection [+0,1d1]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
h) a Shadow Cloak of Stealth [+3] <+3>
   It improves your stealth by 3.  It creates an unnatural
   darkness.  
i) (nothing)
j) The Helm of Curufin (-1) [+0,1d2] <+2>
   It improves your stealth and perception by 2.  It provides
   resistance to confusion.  It draws powerful creatures to your
   level (even when not worn).  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.  It grants you the ability: Listen.  
k) (nothing)
l) a Pair of Leather Boots of Softest Tread [+0,1d1] <+3>
   It improves your stealth by 3.  
m) (nothing)
n) (nothing)


  [Inventory]

a) 5 Mottled Herbs of Rage
b) 4 Pale Green Herbs of Healing
c) a Grey Herb of Restoration
d) 6 Pieces of Dark Bread
e) 4 Flasks of oil
f) 10 Clear Potions of Miruvor
g) 9 Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor
h) 2 Smoky Potions of Healing
i) 4 Pale Green Potions of Quickness
j) 2 Dark Blue Potions of Elemental Resistance
k) 2 Bright Orange Potions of Strength
l) a Sparkling Blue Potion of Dexterity
m) 2 Crimson Potions of Grace
n) a Twisted Staff of Freedom (6 charges)
o) an Aspen Staff of Revelations (2 charges)
p) an Aspen Staff of Revelations (0 charges)
q) an Aspen Staff of Revelations (0 charges)
r) a Runed Staff of Treasures (0 charges)
s) a Silver Staff of Recharging (0 charges)
t) a Silver Ring of Dexterity <+1>
   It increases your dexterity by 1.  It sustains your dexterity.
   
u) The Pearl 'Nimphelos' <+2>
   It increases your grace by 2.  It sustains your grace.  It
   cannot be harmed by the elements.  
v) a Brass Lantern of Brightness (with 4057 turns of light)
   It burns brightly, increasing your light radius by an
   additional square.  
w) a Mattock of Belegost (-5,5d2) <+3> 14.2 lb
   It improves your tunneling by 3.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  


  [Notes]

clouded of the Edain
Entered Angband on 15 Jul 2012

    Turn     Depth    Note

       0     50 ft    (Disguise)
       0     50 ft    (Vanish)
     467    100 ft    (Keen Senses)
     879    250 ft    (Exchange Places)
   2,258    400 ft    (Dodging)
   2,814    500 ft    (Sprinting)
   3,932    600 ft    (Lore-Keeper)
   4,223    600 ft    (Lore-Master)
   5,627    600 ft    (Listen)
   6,346    700 ft    (Finesse)
   6,413    700 ft    Found The Dagger 'Angrist'
   6,420    700 ft    !
   6,421    700 ft    I will kill myself irl if I die after finding this
   6,752    700 ft    Found The Dagger of Azaghal
   6,756    700 ft    (Subtlety)
   7,070    750 ft    (Assassination)
   8,228    750 ft    (Focused attack)
   9,210    850 ft    (Rapid Attack)
   9,227    850 ft    Found The Helm of Curufin
   9,334    800 ft    Found The Pearl 'Nimphelos'
   9,905    800 ft    (Cruel Blow)
  10,382    800 ft    (Dexterity)
  11,853    900 ft    just got a 16d5
  12,681    950 ft    Entered Gothmog's hall
  12,700    950 ft    Gothmog's halls eh?
  12,710    950 ft    all that loot looks tempting...
  13,849    950 ft    Slew Tevildo, Prince of Cats
  13,852    950 ft    Slew Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
  14,085    950 ft    I'm so frail :(
  14,224    950 ft    I really need to find a !con
  14,224    950 ft    or else I don't know if I can survive stabbing morgoth 
  15,182    950 ft    okay, detected a !con
  15,182    950 ft    hopefully I can get it
  15,311    950 ft    got it!
  15,360    950 ft    Found The Pair of Steel Greaves of Orodreth
  15,578    950 ft    hm, ancalagon's guardian a shadow cloak
  15,843    950 ft    34 stealth
  15,843    950 ft    "not bad"
  16,517    950 ft    Slew Smaug the Golden
  16,589    950 ft    amulet of con, welcome
  16,729    950 ft    Found The Necklace of the Dwarves
  16,742    950 ft    (Clarity)
  16,742    950 ft    sort of want that necklace but I can't kill Ds
  16,875    950 ft    Found The Longbow 'Belthronding'
  16,944    950 ft    Slew Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves
  16,944    950 ft    Found The Wolf-Hame of Draugluin
  17,213    950 ft    almost died...
  17,843  1,000 ft    Entered Morgoth's throne room
  17,868  1,000 ft    Slew Shelob, Spider of Darkness
  18,234  1,000 ft    (Song of Silence)
  18,234  1,000 ft    (Unwavering Voice)
  18,877  1,000 ft    just gothmog, unrelenting horrors and morgoth left in 
                      the main room 
  19,121  1,000 ft    Found The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth
  19,124  1,000 ft    Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
  19,134  1,000 ft    alright, tons of rev this time
  19,138    950 ft    (Song of the Trees)
  19,138    950 ft    (Song of Este)
  19,231    800 ft    recharging, nice
  20,105     Gates    Entered The Gates of Angband
  20,164     Gates    yay!

  20,165     Gates    You escaped the Iron Hells on 16 July 2012.
  20,165     Gates    You brought back a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown!




  ['Score' 041179834]


Posted on 16.7.2012 07:52

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394. on the Sil Ladder (of 2253)

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On 16.7.2012 07:52 clouded wrote:
Yay! This was extremely fun and partly agonising. After finding the best weapon in the game, Angrist, I knew this was my best chance at winning an Edain... but having basically two hits kill me made the lower depths extremely tense. At those depths I only killed serpents, sleeping vampires and some rauko while gathering stuff, mainly hoping for con items and good staves. The throne room was as simple as ever using vanish and this time I had enough revelations for the whole way up so it was quite a pleasant stroll out of dungeon.


On 16.7.2012 11:43 half wrote:
Congratulations, I've never won with one of the Edain.

I don't think many people would agree with you that Angrist is the best weapon in Sil, but it may well be true for an assassin-type character, and I think most people do underrate it.

Also, the throne room is notably easier for stealth play than for combat characters, and I think this makes a lot of sense. Do you think stealth is too strong, even considering this? Do you have some good ideas for weakening it. Note that in the next version we have spread out the monster Perception scores a bit, making more variety in what can spot you, but we've done this by lowering some, leaving the highest ones where they are (perhaps some need to be raised). Did anything see you and make you need to vanish?

16d5 is nice!

You don't need to attack Morgoth to get his crown. With this character there was probably an easier (and more canonical) way.

Interesting rings!

On 16.7.2012 13:19 clouded wrote:
Thanks for the congratulations.

The Angrist comment was semi-joking, before starting this character I was talking with elliptic about pacifist chars and we both mentioned how great it is to find Angrist - no need to worry about the cutting of sils (potentially saving a lot of XP), but I always get quite excited when I find it, I feel I am a step closer to winning.

On stealth, I do feel it's very strong because of the beautiful xp system not requiring any killing, though it does require refined play.

My general experience with pure stealth (starting with raising stealth to 7 or 8, getting disguise and vanish if I can): early on 'b's are brutal if they notice you (which can happen often because they are fast and bump into you) since you cannot run/vanish from them and usually can't kill them. Besides those, wolves occasionally notice me and they can be a bit of a pain, but they are melee-able without any skills and easier to escape from. After their depth nothing really notices me at all and it's easy until ~600' when cat warriors show up, same with the 'b's them being fast means it's easy to bump into them and almost impossible to run/vanish from them, they also can spot me somewhat often if I'm not in stealth mode or staying still - but stealth mode makes it even more likely I might bump into them, so cats are definitely the most troubling enemy for these chars I feel. Also around that depth, werewolves can notice me quite often, but like wolves they are at least possible to escape from. After that depth it goes back to being mostly safe, nothing really notices me and only vampires are fast, but they come alone and are easy to vanish from (with sprinting of course, but you usually need to take a few hits which can suck).

On this particular throne room, I did get noticed a few times while picking things off from the mass in the main room. I think mainly Morgoth noticed me, but I kept him as far away as possible so it only took a few turns to get behind the pillars and vanish. My route is to clear the NW and then take the secret doors to enter the main room from the W/SW as things seem to cluster at the top of the room.

On nerfing stealth, I'm not sure what to suggest, but I do think that you vanish extremely quickly and it's a bit odd that monsters completely forget about you when you do it, I'd expect them to at least inspect where you were when you vanished. One of the reasons it's so good in the throne room is that you can very patiently kill things one by one while they all stay in the same area. Another thing is that stealth seems basically as useful to all characters... well not if you go all out protection, but while this character absolutely needs stealth to not die, a Noldor with 49HP, a great sword and lighter mail would find it just as good.

I did think about getting lorien, I wasn't sure if I could get enough song for it to work. With the pearl and !grace I would have I believe, but I decided against it.



Oh and... I'd like the thank you and Scatha for the game. I love it, and the allowance of such stealthy/pacifist playstyles is what interested me in the game at first, aswell as hearing that it shares similarities to the dungeon crawl ethos. (I am a crawl player and I somewhat dislike angband)

On 4.8.2012 20:42 decoy wrote:
Hmmm, I'd like to add Raukar to the list of "things that can easily catch a stealth character."

If one were to "nerf" stealth, I would think making Vanish slightly less effective is just about the only way to do so. Much more and it probably becomes unplayable (even though it's already fairly rough).

On 5.8.2012 17:52 Scatha wrote:
decoy: Fair suggestion about the raukar. Actually the direction we're moving in is to give them higher Will scores, so they will be more resistant to Lorien, Elbereth, etc. and giving higher Perception scores to the undead (where hiding feels like it should perhaps not be so effective). We certainly don't want to cripple stealth, but we'd like to avoid it getting to a point at the end of the game where there are no more real decisions. Thanks for flagging vanish -- I think I underestimate it since I still compare it to a much stronger version we had in development!

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