[Sil 1.0.2 Character Dump]
Name Streak Age 1,232 Str 4 = 3 +1
Sex Male Height 7'5 Dex 8 = 4 +2 +2
Race Noldor Weight 181 Con 3
House Finarfin Gra 4 = 3 +1
Game Turn 16,239 Melee (+9,4d10) Melee 9 = 5 +8 -4
Exp Pool 2,433 Bows (+31,1d12) Archery 31 = 25 +8 -2
Total Exp 79,333 (+31,1d12) Evasion 15 = 7 +8
Burden 111.8 Armor [+15,5-15] Stealth 15 = 11 +8 +4 -8
Max Burden 207.3 Perception 17 = 10 +4 +2 +1
Depth 0' Health 34:34 Will 9 = 5 +4
Min Depth 0' Voice 13:41 Smithing 4 = 0 +4
Light Radius 7 Song Sharpness Song 14 = 10 +4
Faster than a speeding arrow...
[Last Messages]
> You have 91 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow hits Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!!
> Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst notices you.
> Your shot cripples Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!
> The Arrow breaks.
> You have 90 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow hits Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst.
> The Arrow breaks.
> You have 89 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow pierces Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst.
> The Arrow breaks.
> You have 88 Arrows (m).
> The Arrow pierces Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst!!
> Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst dies.
> The Arrow breaks.
[Screenshot]
.......
~...#..
~~.....
.~.@...
.~~...#
..~~...
...~...
[Equipment]
a) a Great Axe (-3,4d5) 8.0 lb
It requires both hands to wield it properly.
b) a Longbow of Radiance (+1,1d10) [-1] 3.4 lb
It fires shining arrows. It can shoot arrows 18 squares
(with your current strength).
c) a Jet Ring of Damage <+1>
It improves your damage sides by 1.
d) a Bloodstone Ring of Dexterity <+1>
It increases your dexterity by 1. It sustains your dexterity.
e) an Amber Amulet of the Blessed Realm <+1>
It increases your grace by 1. It sustains your grace. It
lights the dungeon around you.
f) a Silmaril
It sustains your grace. It grants you the ability to see
invisible creatures. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
g) Galvorn Armour of Stealth [+0,2d5] <+1>
It improves your stealth by 1. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
h) a Shadow Cloak of Stealth [+4] <+5>
It improves your stealth by 5. It creates an unnatural
darkness.
i) (nothing)
j) a Dwarf Mask of True Sight [-2,1d2] <+2>
It improves your perception by 2. It provides resistance to
fire, blindness, and hallucination. It grants you the
ability to see invisible creatures.
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Power (-1) [+0,1d1] <+1>
It increases your strength by 1.
l) The Pair of Steel Greaves of Orodreth [-1,1d2] <+1>
It increases your dexterity by 1. It provides resistance to
fire. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
m) 88 Arrows
They can be shot 18 squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) an Arrow of Piercing
It cuts easily through armour. It can be shot 18 squares
(with your current strength and bow).
[Inventory]
a) 3 Fragments of Lembas
b) a Clear Potion of Miruvor
c) 9 Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor
d) 8 Sparkling Blue Potions of Healing
e) 3 Sky Blue Potions of Slow Poison
f) 2 Azure Potions of Quickness
g) 4 Bright Orange Potions of Strength
h) 5 Green Potions of Dexterity
i) 6 Copper Speckled Potions of Constitution
j) 10 Brilliant Blue Potions of Grace
k) a Runed Staff of Freedom (5 charges)
l) a Willow Staff of Light (5 charges)
m) an Aspen Staff of Revelations (0 charges)
n) a Beech Staff of Foes (4 charges)
o) an Ivory Staff of Warding (2 charges)
p) an Obsidian Amulet of Constitution <+1>
It increases your constitution by 1. It sustains your
constitution.
q) 2 Silmarils
It sustains your grace. It grants you the ability to see
invisible creatures. It cannot be harmed by the elements.
r) a Mattock (-4,5d3) <+2> 12.6 lb
It improves your tunneling by 2. It requires both hands to
wield it properly.
s) a Longbow of Doriath (+0,1d10) [-1] 3.7 lb
It slays wolves and spiders. It can shoot arrows 18 squares
(with your current strength).
t) an Arrow (Poisoned)
It is branded with venom. It can be shot 18 squares (with
your current strength and bow).
u) 8 Arrows (+3)
They can be shot 18 squares (with your current strength and bow).
v) 32 Arrows
They can be shot 18 squares (with your current strength and bow).
[Notes]
Streak of the Noldor
Entered Angband on 2 Aug 2012
Turn Depth Note
0 50 ft (Charge)
0 50 ft (Keen Senses)
528 200 ft Slew Gorgol, the Butcher
533 200 ft (Lore-Keeper)
1,066 300 ft (Disguise)
1,087 300 ft Entered the forge 'Orodruth'
1,602 350 ft (Song of Silence)
2,491 400 ft (Vanish)
2,753 350 ft (Precision)
2,991 600 ft (Lore-Master)
3,014 600 ft (Dodging)
3,055 600 ft (Sprinting)
3,585 650 ft Feanorian Lamp is better than my torch!
3,773 700 ft (Dexterity)
3,862 700 ft (Flaming Arrows)
4,279 800 ft Slew Nan, the Giant
4,279 800 ft Found The Greatsword 'Glend'
4,290 800 ft (Listen)
4,313 900 ft (Crippling Shot)
4,820 950 ft (Dexterity)
5,703 950 ft (Focused attack)
6,174 900 ft Found The Set of Gauntlets of Gamil Zirak
7,291 850 ft Slew Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
7,294 850 ft Slew Tevildo, Prince of Cats
8,368 900 ft (Song of Slaying)
8,601 900 ft Slew Dagorhir, the Elfbane
8,716 900 ft Entered Hoard of the Worm of Greed
8,848 900 ft (Song of Sharpness)
9,201 900 ft (Inner Light)
9,731 900 ft (Rapid Fire)
11,188 950 ft Entered Chambers of Thu
11,257 950 ft Found The Longsword 'Narsil'
11,281 950 ft Big D just round corner. Can't get in to kill unique
Cs!
12,242 850 ft Found The Pair of Steel Greaves of Orodreth
12,252 850 ft Found The Shortsword 'Dagmor'
13,711 1,000 ft Entered Morgoth's throne room
13,837 1,000 ft Slew Thuringwethil, the Vampire Messenger
13,839 1,000 ft Found The Bat-Fell of Thuringwethil
13,890 1,000 ft Slew Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth
14,143 1,000 ft Slew Ancalagon the Black
14,168 1,000 ft Slew Ungoliant, the Gloomweaver
14,212 1,000 ft Found The Longsword 'Orcrist'
14,303 1,000 ft Destroyed Lungorthin, the Balrog of White Fire
14,443 1,000 ft Slew Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
14,443 1,000 ft Found The Mighty Hammer 'Grond'
14,450 1,000 ft Found The Set of Leather Gloves of Celebrimbor
14,469 1,000 ft Found The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth
14,481 1,000 ft Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
14,582 1,000 ft Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
14,591 1,000 ft Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown
14,693 850 ft (Eye for Detail)
15,575 200 ft Slew Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves
15,575 200 ft Found The Wolf-Hame of Draugluin
16,183 Gates Entered The Gates of Angband
16,227 Gates Slew Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst
16,238 Gates You escaped the Iron Hells on 02 August 2012.
16,238 Gates You brought back all three Silmarils from Morgoth's
crown!
['Score' 141383761]
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Posted on 2.8.2012 19:55
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19. on the Sil Ladder (of 2253)
Comments
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On 2.8.2012 19:55 Psi wrote:
Been wanting to get back to the top of the ladder!
It was a very nervy experience at times and my heart is still pounding.
Hopefully this will prove a tougher mark to beat.
On 2.8.2012 20:39 Scatha wrote:
Wow. Congratulations on a _very_ speedy win. I find reading the list of which abilities you picked up when pretty enlightening, particularly as it includes some I might have guessed you would have tried to go without (but I rather suspect you have a better idea than me).
How quickly did Morgoth fall to your arrows? On the face of it this should doesn't seem like it should be a crazily powerful build, so something will probably get toned back here.
My scattershot thoughts for candidates:
- Crippling Shot is scheduled to become a bit less good, particularly against V, but we haven't decided exactly how.
- Rapid Shot and Song of Sharpness are both very good individually, but they're also very synergistic. I'm not sure if we want to tone one or both of these back slightly.
- Stealth will get just slightly worse at high levels in the next version with some spreading out of monster Perception scores. I suppose we could do the same to Listen by spreading out their Stealth scores, but I don't know if that's desirable.
- Perhaps longbows could be at 2d5 damage (so that the bows match longswords and shortswords). This would seem to reduce the power of archery specialists a little while keeping it relatively viable for mixed fighters.
(- Charge is getting nerfed, but I guess in this game it was just to help you do the early levels quickly rather than a key part of the build?)
What do you think let you get away with this? Are my suggestions above tackling the right parts of the issue?
Anyhow, congratulations again! Although I'm suggesting that something might want to be toned back, I don't think I could manage close to your time even with the current rules. I'd love to hear more about Streak's adventures.
On 2.8.2012 22:01 Psi wrote:
First let me say this was not at all comfortable. I made mistakes I would normally not get away with and fully expected to be killed on several turns. At one point I had a vampire and two troll guards adjacent to me and I was just chugging healing potions knowing that if I moved I would die. On my third and final !healing, nothing hit me, so I dashed betweem them (which almost killed me) and vanished. Too many times I had adjacent enemies and just had to fire my piercing arrows and hope the enemy would go down in that one turn. On another occassion I hit either crumbling stairs or a false floor at 900' and ended up severely underpowered at 950' with no escape route and penned in by Drauglin and troll guards. I thought I had no chance. Another time I was being chased by a Grotesque and some other fiends when I ended up in a lit room with only the one exit. I thought that was it as despite having been to 900+ I still had not picked up a shovel or mattock! Thankfully there was a loose piece of rubble in the room and stepping behind it meant the Grotesque moved into the room. Phew!
Basic plan was to take charge instead of versatility so I could power through the early levels, then build up stealth (and song of silence) to descend as quickly and quietly as possible, pick up some kit and then develop my archery.
I found a Curved Sword of Orc slaying very early which helped a lot. I found a Dragon Horn longbow before I'd seen a longbow and then found a feanorian lamp at 650' before I'd seen a lantern. Nan was one of my first kills after the early levels and Glend was fantastic for an extra point of strength. I used it throughout the game until I accidentally used it on the second silmaril - I thought I had swapped it out, but must have hit the wrong key or something! I must admit I was wondering if I was going to be able to get the silmarils out when I suddenly realised I had no sharp weapons as I entered the throne room!
The throne room was tense. I'm used to being able to almost clear it before breaking tension, but it broke on my very first attack! Soon after I was spotted by an orc and Morgoth et al were released out of the main chamber. As I fled Morgoth caught me with his distance smash, but I managed to vanish into the NW loop. I carefully picked off the guards one at a time to break back out, before being spotted again and chased around by an unrelenting horror! Ungoliant managed to sneak up on me to leave me poisoned, but again I managed to vanish and then pick him off using listen. Time came to try and draw Morgoth out of the NW corner. I was trying to pick off the Ts still around thinking V was out of LoS when I accidentally shot him! He was slowed by this which gave me a chance to back off, chug potions and set myself. It took a lot more shots than my previous archer, but V still fell before he reached me. 6 shots for each of his steps is a lot for the poor chap to take.
The ascent is always horrible. I've never attempted it with Morgoth following me, so no idea how people survive it! I found song of silence to be really helpful here (not had it for the ascent before and it makes a noticeable difference). I had a worrying moment at 200' when I found myself in a corridor with Drauglin and escort at one end and an ancient sapphire serpent at the other! I stood in the middle and let loose at the Cs until the S came around the corner at which point I had to switch focus - but they all fell in the end.
I think the whole game took somewhere under 3 hours. Shout if you have any other questions regarding order of abilities etc.
I'm not sure what the right way to nerf archery is, but as I mentioned on my last archer, the 50% evasion reduction is quite a considerable bonus.
Lastly, I killed an awful lot of characters over the last few days before this one made it through, so it is not like it was easily achieved!
On 2.8.2012 22:26 Scatha wrote:
Sounds awesome, and a great adventure.
Some brief comments:
- Thanks for letting me know that you weren't quite as overpowered as my first impression!
- I should point out that having two Silmarils makes the ascent harder, and three makes it harder again, so you might not have quite the right picture of people escaping while being chased.
- Of course the halved evasion is a serious bonus, but it also does a lot of work in keeping archery viable for non-specialists (in a way that just increasing damage on bows wouldn't). It also does double duty in keeping player Evasion in check!
On 3.8.2012 00:15 debo wrote:
One thing off the top of my head -- arrows seem really plentiful, really early on. It's not uncommon for me to have two full quivers of them by 500', even if I'm playing a dedicated archer without Careful Shot.
On 3.8.2012 08:37 Psi wrote:
@debo - I think arrows were about right on this run. I would go out of my way to collect them and I started to get nervous about running out in the throne room.
@Scatha - I've been giving this some thought... what makes this possible is the synergy between stealth and archery. A build like this is as good as dead if foes gets adjacent, but stealth lets you pick your targets and archery lets you take them down before they can reach you. If others wake, then you can vanish round the corner and repeat. Once you have crippling shot and rapid fire, an asleep foe will often die before getting a chance to shout and wake the neighbours. One of the biggest dangers is getting trapped in corridors, but listen helps to prevent that. I also can't emphasise how useful Song of Silence is for turning on when you need to sneak through groups of monsters.
I suppose the question is, do you need to fix anything? The winners area is hardly littered with archers. I wouldn't base too much on my smithing based monstrosity either. Streak survived long enough to put together a group of abilities that sit very nicely together and once you have done that with any build, you are in a strong position.
On 3.8.2012 12:04 half wrote:
Amazing. And I didn't even have to re-sort the ladder to bring the most recent entry to the top!
I'm inclined to agree with Psi that it is not clear how much needs to be done to make archery less powerful. A stealthy archer is a very natural and thematic build, and has been done very well here. With this much expertise and risk, it seems pretty reasonable to be able to reach the throne room very quickly.
The thing that most concerns Scatha and I with archery is the ability to take out Morgoth so easily, which suggests it is overpowered. In pre-release builds we had continually improved archery in the hope that we could tempt people into using it. After I managed to break it, we toned it back a bit, but still don't really have enough evidence to see whether it needs to be toned back even more. My guess is that if there is something wrong with it, it is in the later stages of the game.
On 3.8.2012 12:52 Scatha wrote:
Yes, my concern with archery is only for the late game, and then really focused on the fight with Morgoth. My guess is that something should change with the latter, but I don't really know about the former more generally.
By the way, I am delighted that you did this with such a complex build, where there were lots of choices along the way. I'd have been much more concerned (in terms of thinking it might want balance changes) if you pulled this of with a simple character built around abusing one skill or ability. This, on the other hand, needs a lot of judgement to play.
On 3.8.2012 12:53 Psi wrote:
Perhaps monsters should get a save against crippling shot in proportion to their HP? So Morgoth is almost invunerable to it, dragons save some of the time and the others are about the same as now?
On 3.8.2012 15:25 Scatha wrote:
Psi: Interesting you should suggest that. We had been thinking of something similar, and would ideally like to have a similar rule for Cruel Blow, Knockback, and Stun.
The cleanest rule I have in mind for the critical based ones is that the damage multiplied by the number of criticals should exceed the base health. So you need to half kill with a double critical, or one third with a triple critical, and so on. This has two problems: it doesn't obviously shift to Knockback (though perhaps something like raw damage times critical width > 10*health could work), and it might be more in line with other hand mechanics to allow some kind of Will save instead (Will vs 3*number of criticals? Though that loses any health dependence, which could keep the problem of too good against Morgoth if it's any use elsewhere).
On 29.9.2012 04:26 ewan wrote:
Just noticed this :) - sorry for the delay in offering congrats!
Congrats!!
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