Hallucination sucks

[buzzkill]

Hallucination sucks. It sucks when you hallucinate.

When you hallucinate, you either...

1) are overpowered for your surroundings. So you proceed as you normally would without any real additional risk, or more likely

2) you are exploring at an appropriate depth and risk level (or worse). In this case hallucination is a game stopper, necessitating long periods of rest, or (if you're like me) recall and shop until it wears off.

Hallucination really sucks. The implementation sucks too.

Random monsters and objects appear all over the screen and map. Who hacked that together?

I want something better from hallucination, but I'm not quite sure what, except that I'd like to scrap the current system and start from scratch.

This thread isn't necessarily to promote my own idea, but for just tossing out crazy ideas and hoping that something useful comes of it.

My crazy idea...
Hallucination messes with your mind, so ESP and all forms of detection cease to function. Next, have the RNG logically generate (with greater OoD leeway) a lot of additional 'imaginary' monsters (awake) and objects. Also turn the 'imiginary' spawning way up. Have these 'imaginary' monsters behave normally except they will cease to exist upon (a certain amount of) physical contact. There are a lot of ways to further tweak this, but that's the basic idea. I can't help but think that it's better than the 'flashing lights' we have now, after all it's the character that's supposed to be hallucinating, not the player.

[will_asher]

I agree. Thinking about it, I don't think it would be too hard to do either.

Kavlax the Many-Headed breathes.
(for 0 damage) -Hey wait, how come I'll still alive?
You hit Kavlax the Many-Headed.
Kavlax the Many-Headed vanishes in a puff of logic.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Back in my day, we hallucinated in black and white. And we liked it.

[Frood]

I agree that hallucination needs to be improved. At least you can't use the monster list to see which monsters are real anymore...

To create random not-real monsters is a good idea. I also think that real monsters should display as other monsters, but not keep changing each turn as it now. Also you should get appropriate messages, as it is now you get the real message if you melee a monster.

Maybe there should be a chance that monsters become invisble as well?

[buzzkill]

I agree that hallucination needs to be improved. At least you can't use the monster list to see which monsters are real anymore...

To create random not-real monsters is a good idea. I also think that real monsters should display as other monsters, but not keep changing each turn as it now. <snip>

Maybe there should be a chance that monsters become invisible as well?

This is good stuff.
I was toying with the idea of possibly altering the map (just) a little too. Put a wall where that corridor was. Place extra doors or some traps where there were none. This would work better in bands with more terrain types to play with.

Also you should get appropriate messages, as it is now you get the real message if you melee a monster.

Z+ has really great hallucinations descriptions. IIRC some are entirely unrelated to the rogue-like world. You want to hallucinate just so you can read them.

[Timo Pietilä]

Z+ has really great hallucinations descriptions. IIRC some are entirely unrelated to the rogue-like world. You want to hallucinate just so you can read them.

The pink elephant hits you -more-
The thing from outer space breathes something odd -more-
Little green man is confused -more-

That sorts of things?

[buzzkill]

That sorts of things?

Kinda, "You ruthlessly smite the floating brain of Hitler..."

Better yet, all in a handy text file so you can add your own flavor to the mix.

[RogerN]

You know, for Z+ it would be totally canonical if Amberite hallucinations could become real

*spoiler* At one point in the books, Rinaldo gets high and manages to conjure up a Cheshire cat and a rather dangerous Jabberwock, among other things. Shadow shifting + mind altering drugs = bad news!

[bio_hazard]

Nice ideas! I definitely don't like the 'everything changes every turn' implementation we have now.

How about: (some of these have already been suggested)
-Chance for unresistable fear every turn (may only last one turn, but effect can return before haluc. terminates)?
-Chance for heroism effect
-Chance for unresistable confusion every turn (duration as with fear above)?
-Small, unresistable temporary decrease in speed and to-hit
-Chance for known traps to be forgotten, and fake traps to appear, and undiscovered traps and exits to be detected. I think this would make it so there might actually be a reason to take one of these on purpose in rare cases.
-Chance for your weapon or attack to report as a random attack. "You hit the zombie with a broken dagger/chainsaw/baguette"
-Maybe some sort of shamanistic functions, like a small chance to learn an additional spell or restore Int/Wis, or gain XP.

[will_asher]

My crazy idea...
Hallucination messes with your mind, so ESP and all forms of detection cease to function. Next, have the RNG logically generate (with greater OoD leeway) a lot of additional 'imaginary' monsters (awake) and objects. Also turn the 'imiginary' spawning way up. Have these 'imaginary' monsters behave normally except they will cease to exist upon (a certain amount of) physical contact. There are a lot of ways to further tweak this, but that's the basic idea.

I've just implemented something pretty much like this in DaJAngband. At least the imaginary monsters, not objects. I think adding imaginary objects would be more trouble than it's worth.

[EpicMan]

I really like the disabling detection/ESP option, although it might be something other than hallucination (or hallucination causes detection to see fake traps, monsters, etc so it might as well not work). It isn't an instadeath if you don't resist situation necessarily, but it makes you vulnerable in a unique way until it wears off. To be a useful mechanic though more monsters need to be able to inflict it.