[feature request] show, and cycle between, quivered ammo

[ghengiz]

I have a modest proposal for an UI improvement, similar to one present in crawl.
I think it would be nice to have an additional row in the UI, perhaps above the status one, where the ammo that would be fired by the 'h' command is shown, as in the following (edited) screen dump

                                                                              
Dwarf        ##################################################################
Believer     #................................................................#
Priest       #................................................................#
LEVEL      1 #....................................######......................#
NXT       14 #.......##########...................######..........#####.......#
AU       124 #.......##########.......#######.....######..........#####.......#
\    ~       #.......##########.......#######.....######..........#####.......#
STR:      18 #.......##########.......###6###.....#8####..........###1#.......#
INT:       4 #.......##2#######...............................................#
WIS:   18/40 #................................................................#
DEX:       7 #................................................................#
CON:   18/10 #................................................................#
CHR:       9 #................................................................#
             #........####3###...................................###7.........#
Cur AC     0 #........########.......##5#####.......####4........####.........#
HP   14/  14 #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
SP    2/   2 #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
             #........########...................................####.........#
             #...@...............................................####.........#
             #................................................................#
             #................................................................#
             ##################################################################
Quiver: 99 arrows (+0,+0)
Town

If this will be implemented, a command to cycle between quivered ammo should be too.
I'd suggest "(" and ")", the rationale being one of them is the pre-existent symbol for ammo, and to move the screen dump commands somewhere else.

[Derakon]

The cycling's a neat idea, but display is trickier. As long as we're married to having a 24-row display (which goes way back), we really can't add any more rows to the display without taking rows away elsewhere. That's why there's only one row for status information, and one row for messages, in the first place.

How relevant is that 24-row limitation these days, anyway?

[Magnate]

The cycling's a neat idea, but display is trickier. As long as we're married to having a 24-row display (which goes way back), we really can't add any more rows to the display without taking rows away elsewhere. That's why there's only one row for status information, and one row for messages, in the first place.

How relevant is that 24-row limitation these days, anyway?

Well, Sangband broke with it around v1.0, but AFAIK almost all other roguelikes still support it. If we're going to support handheld devices it's probably still a sensible default, but I don't feel strongly about that.

[ghengiz]

How relevant is that 24-row limitation these days, anyway?

I personally see no reason to retain that limit...and it has been broken before: try zangband 2.4' gcu big display option in a fullscreen terminal, it shows the "normal" screen in the upper-left, and the messages and inventory in subwindows.

v4 could be a good time to go modern and allow a few more rows in vanilla too

[ghengiz]

Well, Sangband broke with it around v1.0, but AFAIK almost all other roguelikes still support it. If we're going to support handheld devices it's probably still a sensible default, but I don't feel strongly about that.

good point.
OTOH, handheld devices already have a dedicated makefile (src/makefile.nds), so why don't we go a little further and set the (current) default with a configure option *just for handheld devices*? all remaining platforms would then take advantage of a bigger display without further modifications

[Nomad]

You could always fit quiver info into the sidebar below the existing equipment symbols, something like this:

[TT][BC=black]              
 [COLOR="#C0C0C0"]|[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]}[/COLOR][COLOR="#9020FF"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#C00000"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#FFFF00"]"[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]~[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"][[/COLOR][COLOR="#FF8000"]([/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"])[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"]]]][/COLOR] 
 Q:[color=#C08040]{[/COLOR][COLOR=#808080]{{[/COLOR][COLOR=#00FFFF]{[/COLOR]...... 
              [/BC][/TT]

And/or this:

[TT][BC=black]              
 [COLOR="#C0C0C0"]|[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]}[/COLOR][COLOR="#9020FF"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#C00000"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#FFFF00"]"[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]~[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"][[/COLOR][COLOR="#FF8000"]([/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"])[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"]]]][/COLOR] 
 Quiver: [color=#C08040]{[/COLOR] 99 
              [/BC][/TT]

It would be most helpful if the colours/symbols for ammo were tweaked so you could visually distinguish arrows, bolts, pebbles and shots, but that seems like a good move anyway, especially now that mithril and seeker ammo types are affixes rather than base types with their own specific symbol.

[ghengiz]

You could always fit quiver info into the sidebar below the existing equipment symbols, something like this:

[TT][BC=black]              
 [COLOR="#C0C0C0"]|[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]}[/COLOR][COLOR="#9020FF"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#C00000"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#FFFF00"]"[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]~[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"][[/COLOR][COLOR="#FF8000"]([/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"])[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"]]]][/COLOR] 
 Q:[color=#C08040]{[/COLOR][COLOR=#808080]{{[/COLOR][COLOR=#00FFFF]{[/COLOR]...... 
              [/BC][/TT]

And/or this:

[TT][BC=black]              
 [COLOR="#C0C0C0"]|[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]}[/COLOR][COLOR="#9020FF"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#C00000"]=[/COLOR][COLOR="#FFFF00"]"[/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"]~[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"][[/COLOR][COLOR="#FF8000"]([/COLOR][COLOR="#C08040"])[/COLOR][COLOR="#808080"]]]][/COLOR] 
 Quiver: [color=#C08040]{[/COLOR] 99 
              [/BC][/TT]

It would be most helpful if the colours/symbols for ammo were tweaked so you could visually distinguish arrows, bolts, pebbles and shots, but that seems like a good move anyway, especially now that mithril and seeker ammo types are affixes rather than base types with their own specific symbol.

Though the point of my proposal were to see exactly which bonus (if any) has the ammo ready to be fired, and how many of it is still in the current quiver slot, I like your suggestion, because the affix system can simplify the display enough to use, say, D as a shortcut to slay dragon, U for demons etc, so it seems a reasonable compromise between more info and the current display size.
OTOH, a little more row would be clearer, IMO, because you see all the info you may need at once (slays, to hit/dam bonuses, how many ammo is in slot) without deciphering a just-12-columns code

[Magnate]

It would be most helpful if the colours/symbols for ammo were tweaked so you could visually distinguish arrows, bolts, pebbles and shots, but that seems like a good move anyway, especially now that mithril and seeker ammo types are affixes rather than base types with their own specific symbol.

Seeker arrows and bolts are still base items, but that's only six types of ammo in total (normal and seeker arrows and bolts, pebbles and shots).

[d_m]

I like the idea of this post.

I don't think extending the number of rows required is smart, both for handhelds and GCU. However, if we reduced the amount of the map that the player needs to see (in terms of the max LOS range for missiles/spells) then I think the map size could be more flexible and we could add something like this.

If the map was less wide there might also be room on a (wider) left bar, although I don't think that would be popular with most players.

EDIT: FWIW, the current "default map" size is 66x22 (66 wide, 22 high).

[Derakon]

We have over 300% more horizontal space than vertical space. Adding more vertical status information at the cost of map view is thus not a great idea IMO. As it turns out, designing compact yet useful status displays is really hard.

It might be worth considering having a "large screen display" mode which uses a different layout for the main view, while keeping the existing default display so the game still works properly on handhelds, consoles, etc.

For now, I suggest that we add a command to cycle the order of the quiver, and if you want to know what your "currently selected" ammo is, you keep a separate window with your equipment on display. Or just hit 'e'.

[ghengiz]

We have over 300% more horizontal space than vertical space. Adding more vertical status information at the cost of map view is thus not a great idea IMO. As it turns out, designing compact yet useful status displays is really hard.

What about this

                                                                              
Believer     ##################################################################
Priest       #................................................................#
LEVEL      1 #................................................................#
NXT       14 #....................................######......................#
AU       124 #.......##########...................######..........#####.......#
\    ~       #.......##########.......#######.....######..........#####.......#
STR:      18 #.......##########.......#######.....######..........#####.......#
INT:       4 #.......##########.......###6###.....#8####..........###1#.......#
WIS:   18/40 #.......##2#######...............................................#
DEX:       7 #................................................................#
CON:   18/10 #................................................................#
CHR:       9 #................................................................#
             #................................................................#
Cur AC     0 #........####3###...................................###7.........#
HP   14/  14 #........########.......##5#####.......####4........####.........#
SP    2/   2 #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
             #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
99 (+ 2,+ 5) #........########...................................####.........#
seeker       #...@...............................................####.........#
arrows       #................................................................#
             #................................................................#
Fast(+10)    ##################################################################
Town

edit: All the new info is there and no rows added, at the expense of removing the race info (but is it really useful to costantly remember to the player which race s/he is?)

It might be worth considering having a "large screen display" mode which uses a different layout for the main view, while keeping the existing default display so the game still works properly on handhelds, consoles, etc.

+1
Are you thinking of modifying the "./angband -mgcu -- -b" option, or to add a new one?

[ghengiz]

forgot to mention, I removed to race info in favor of a blank line above and below the quiver datas, for readability. the monsters' health bar can be put as in

Cur AC     0 #........####3###...................................###7.........#
HP   14/  14 #........########.......##5#####.......####4........####.........#
SP    2/   2 #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
[*****-----] #........########.......########.......#####........####.........#
99 (+ 2,+ 5) #........########...................................####.........#
seeker       #...@...............................................####.........#
arrows       #................................................................#
             #................................................................#
Fast(+10)    ##################################################################
Town

edit:
Alternatively, the ammo flavour could be put in just one line, and if we remove the class, we will gain a total of two blank lines to put around the monsters' health bar.
If I'm not mistaken, the longest flavour string to be displayed should be "mithril arrow", which unfortunately is 13 chars long, leaving no space between 'w' and the map.
I can live with it, however, for aestethic reasons, the map could be shifted, or shortened, by one column (there is a blanck column at the far-right of the screen anyway...)
Hope this is not a break-deal issue