Better light sources

[Therem Harth]

For Vanilla and similar:

Early light sources are pretty poor. Radius 2 light is a big improvement on radius 1, but still annoying to work with.

It would be interesting IMO to have really bright refuelable light sources, with a radius of 8 or more. Magnesium torches anyone?

For ToME2, PosCheng, and other zany variants:

How about non-permanent light sources with unusual effects?

Hand of Glory
A mummified human hand with a wick in each finger. Don't ask where it came from.
Makes the character invisible, stealthy, and non-aggravating while it burns. Radius 10 light.

Ghost Lamp
A pretty red paper lantern, whose light casts more shadows than it dispels.
Provides see invisible while burning. Radius 8 light.

Jack-o-lantern
A gourd with a grimacing face carved into it, and a little candle inside. It's said to repel evil spirits.
Provides ProtEvil while burning. Radius 6 light.

[Therem Harth]

Addendum: I tried T2 with brass lanterns providing radius 5 light (maximum for light sources). It works spectacularly - makes the early game, with poor detection etc. much less irritating.

Another thought - it would be interesting if increasing light radius reduced characters' effective stealth.

[Derakon]

Big light radii make dark rooms a lot less dangerous. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you. Keep in mind though that if your lantern is giving you a radius-5 light to begin with, then you won't care much at all that your helm has +1 light radius, while that helm would be more significant if you only have +2 radius.

[AnonymousHero]

I'm not sure it's what you intended with your description, but having a non-permanent way to negate aggravation sound pretty interesting in the context of T2... but then T2 has always been semi-broken wrt. aggravation.

[Derakon]

Say, y'know what could be interesting? If aggravation had a radius, like light sources do. Aggravation of 1 would automatically wake up any monsters you step next to, but otherwise wouldn't wake monsters any faster than your usual stealth would. Aggravation 2 would be 2 tiles, etc. The current aggravation would be the maximum possible value.

This would have the following benefits:

* The effect would be less binary, giving room for varying levels of "anti-stealth"
* Stealth remains a meaningful stat even when aggravating
* There'd be a disincentive to equipping multiple items with aggravation, since their effects would stack
* You could have items that partially negate aggravation -- for example, Boots of Stealth could also reduce your aggravation level by 1d4 or something.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I like it, Derakon. I've lamented the binary aggravation choice, especially when playing a rogue. Stealth is the bread and butter of the class and to have it completely negated doesn't seem fair. Forces rogue to just become essentially a weaker warrior class the moment aggravation comes into play.

[Carnivean]

* The effect would be less binary, giving room for varying levels of "anti-stealth"

Sounds like stealth should be a scale between "noone has a clue that you're standing amongst them, slaughtering them one by one" and "standing still in a quiet, dark corner yet everyone on the level is homing in on you like Morgoth".

Aggravation/stealth would drop off with distance, and monsters would have varying levels of detection.

Combine it with light levels too. Strong lights are anti-stealth, therefore aggravation. Combine further with Therem's left field light sources for anti-aggravating light.

[Estie]

Strong lights are anti-stealth, therefore aggravation.

While this makes sense at first glance, having light radius impact stealth is imo a bad idea.
The premise of stealth is that stealthy me gets information and acts upon it while my enemy does not. Reducing light radius also reduces information, so trading that for stealth makes you bumble about in the dark; it doesnt "feel" like youre the stealthy actor among unprepared foes; monsters, once awake, dont care about lighting.

Derakons idea sounds good to me. For the record, I dislike aggravation so much that I never use the One Ring before the final two fights.

[Carnivean]

True, but only if light in the traditional sense is the only way to see things.

Also, the light from Phial of Galadriel was damaging to evil, wasn't it? Wandering around with that on display should be something that monsters can feel from close range. A thief's lantern should be full information, but very low effect on stealth.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

That could be another form of light, a Lantern of Theivery!

[Zireael]

I like the aggravation range and light of thievery ideas.

[bio_hazard]

Lamp of Caution. Auto-detects secret doors, traps with radius 3. Points way to nearest stairs.

Lamp of Distraction. Radius varies from 1-4. +20 AC vs ranged attacks.

Lamp of Moderation. rFire, rCold. r2 light, +5 infravision

Lamp of Purity. rPoison (or activate for cure poison).

Lamp of Bravery. rFear. activate for berserk.

Might be interesting to have lamps with activation use up a half-flask of oil

[Derakon]

Be aware that it's already the case that a Lantern of True Sight is better than any artifact light source for certain characters (those that can't find rBlind/SI on a different slot and don't care about the artifacts' activations or marginal bonuses). Do we really want to completely overshadow things like the Phial? And if we boost the Phial, Star, etc. to "compete" with new light sources, are we going to compensate somehow by making the game harder?

[debo]

Do we really want to completely overshadow things like the Phial?

Very good pun

I have an idea to fix your problem:

The Phial of Galadriel
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
When activated, it fires a rocket.
Radius 3 light.

[Derakon]

Very good pun

Believe it or not, that was completely unintentional.

I have an idea to fix your problem:

The Phial of Galadriel
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
When activated, it fires a rocket.
Radius 3 light.

Ah yes, who could ever forget when Sam rescued Frodo from Shelob by fragging the hell out of her?