Basic advice on Sangband?

[runequester]

As a tabletop RPG guy, I was always more into Runequest or Rolemaster than D&D so Sangband looks interesting, inbetween getting horribly killed in Vanilla

Any decent, new guys advice to be aware of? Particularly compared to regular Angband?

[Magnate]

As a tabletop RPG guy, I was always more into Runequest or Rolemaster than D&D so Sangband looks interesting, inbetween getting horribly killed in Vanilla

Any decent, new guys advice to be aware of? Particularly compared to regular Angband?

Sangband's early game is insanely hard. I've tried weapons, archery, spells ... and I have NEVER (in nearly a decade of irregular play) got any character past dl10 without using a martial art.

So my advice is, pick a race that is good at one of the martial arts (racial score under ten, preferably 8 or 7), and put your first ~20xp into it. Then you can start to pick up the basics like saving throw, perception, and whatever else you're going to develop (spells, devices, weapon skill, archery, burglary). Leave the forging/infusion skills until much later (this will hurt if you suffer from optimisation-OCD because the skill cost goes up, but it's negligible in the long run).

Don't raise too many skills. 6-8 is normal. Fewer than 6 is more of a challenge game, more than 8 is going to be slower and easier and probably duller (though I enjoyed it when I tried it).

Don't dive too quickly. The main reason I can't survive without martial arts is because I tend to meet creatures I can't handle on dls four or five.

Avoid Feldisham the Guard, he's a very early unique who hits way too hard for his depth - he's considerably tougher than Brodda or even Bullroarer at depth.

Enjoy it, it's one of the most polished roguelikes there is. Forging and infusion are hugely fun, but if you're going to raise them you need to get through the first 1/4 of the dungeon using only 4-6 skills ....

[runequester]

Thanks! It does seem like the difficulty is up quite a bit.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Best Character I won the game with a couple years ago was with a Dunadan Necromancer, wraith form is insanely useful, Dwarf priest also works well, for early levels weapon type damage is important, some monsters can only be hurt by bludgening damage, so weapon type(piercing,bludgoning,) are important, If you don't use a skill very often you will eventually have to use more experience to bring it up( shows up in yellow).

Learning spells and raising mana can be a little confusing at first to understand, the ? key is very useful to understand what a particular skill is useful for.

If you plan on crafting then I suggest getting the find essence ability very early to collect more essences early on... Enchanting magic powers to items is complicated business...and keep a look out for chunks of ore, it's best to be able to start collecting at early levels, to build up more ore, to create with, as some crafting experiments fail...hope this helps.

[Estie]

Be wary with Sang. Long time ago I tried it, got a good dwarf going, had many artifacts and was approaching endgame....when in a heated battle, I picked up loot to identify later and retreated, making it to town to find out that all my equipment was ruined. Some item I had picked up had disenchanted everyhing I was wearing, even unique artifacts, to the point where they were useless.

I wish it had been a clean death at least rather than that....I havent touched Sang since, and have no desire to ever do so again.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Be wary with Sang. Long time ago I tried it, got a good dwarf going, had many artifacts and was approaching endgame....when in a heated battle, I picked up loot to identify later and retreated, making it to town to find out that all my equipment was ruined. Some item I had picked up had disenchanted everyhing I was wearing, even unique artifacts, to the point where they were useless.

I wish it had been a clean death at least rather than that....I havent touched Sang since, and have no desire to ever do so again.

I don't blame you...that is pretty unfair.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Be wary with Sang. Long time ago I tried it, got a good dwarf going, had many artifacts and was approaching endgame....when in a heated battle, I picked up loot to identify later and retreated, making it to town to find out that all my equipment was ruined. Some item I had picked up had disenchanted everyhing I was wearing, even unique artifacts, to the point where they were useless.

I wish it had been a clean death at least rather than that....I havent touched Sang since, and have no desire to ever do so again.

That has never happend to me, however when fighting certain uniques, like Kim,Mim, Ibum the petty dwarves have a disenchantment attack that can cause those effects. Amnesia is much more troublesome in Sang you basicaly have to reidentify everything, wish camlost would change that to make temporary and Mindblast sucks to. The black breath is also a pain as your basicaly cursed, however athelas cures that.

[Magnate]

That has never happend to me, however when fighting certain uniques, like Kim,Mim, Ibum the petty dwarves have a disenchantment attack that can cause those effects.

It's never happened to me either, and it sounds as if "all my equipment was ruined" might be a slight exaggeration. After a long fight with a disenchanter you might expect something approaching that, but I'm not aware of items that cause it. Sang does (or at least did) have hidden curses, but those only applied on worn items. I'm not aware of anything that can trash your equipment merely by being in the backpack, so I think the OP should not worry unduly about this.

[NotMorgoth]

I'm guessing what caused this is a cursed blanket of ethereal sanctuary.

A cursed blanket of elemental protection will destroy scrolls etc in your inventory instead of protecting them, so I assume a cursed blanket of ethereal sanctuary can disenchant stuff instead of protecting it.

I guess the lesson to learn from this is to always ID blankets before picking them up, as unless it's happened to you, it's not obvious that they can be cursed.

[Malak Darkhunter]

I'm guessing what caused this is a cursed blanket of ethereal sanctuary.

A cursed blanket of elemental protection will destroy scrolls etc in your inventory instead of protecting them, so I assume a cursed blanket of ethereal sanctuary can disenchant stuff instead of protecting it.

I guess the lesson to learn from this is to always ID blankets before picking them up, as unless it's happened to you, it's not obvious that they can be cursed.

I think I *do* remember seeing that once, wonder if resist disenchantment nullifies the effects on the gear? Camlost could probably give more info here, or probably Magnate.

[Estie]

What NotMorgoth says; I dont recall the exact name, but it was some blanket or such. It did exactly that - disenchanting everything by merely being in my inventory, unidentified. And it wasnt just removing a bit of ac either; pvals and (+x,+y) enchantments were all pretty much zero by the time I noticed it.

[Magnate]

What NotMorgoth says; I dont recall the exact name, but it was some blanket or such. It did exactly that - disenchanting everything by merely being in my inventory, unidentified. And it wasnt just removing a bit of ac either; pvals and (+x,+y) enchantments were all pretty much zero by the time I noticed it.

My Lord, Leon was an evil genius. I had no idea blankets could be cursed - I've only ever found good ones.

[wobbly]

I'm a little confused about how the racial abilities( disarm, device, stealth etc.) interact with the skill. Is it basically additive or is it more like a multiplier (similar to the aptitude).

[Magnate]

I'm a little confused about how the racial abilities( disarm, device, stealth etc.) interact with the skill. Is it basically additive or is it more like a multiplier (similar to the aptitude).

It's a multiplier.

Every skill has a base cost, ranging from 4 IIRC (disarming?) to 16 (spellcasting).

This cost is multiplied by a racial aptitude, which ranges from 7 to 20 or so (I think - but you really want to avoid skills with racial aptitudes worse than about 12). Note that lower numbers are better: 10 is 100% of base cost, 7 is 70%, 20 is 200%.

This multiplied racial cost is then scaled with skill level to give you the cost of the next skill point.

[camlost]

It's a multiplier.

Every skill has a base cost, ranging from 4 IIRC (disarming?) to 16 (spellcasting).

This cost is multiplied by a racial aptitude, which ranges from 7 to 20 or so (I think - but you really want to avoid skills with racial aptitudes worse than about 12). Note that lower numbers are better: 10 is 100% of base cost, 7 is 70%, 20 is 200%.

This multiplied racial cost is then scaled with skill level to give you the cost of the next skill point.

Skill costs also have an impact on a skill's potency even at the same level. A gnome with 40 in wrestling and a strength of 18/100 is actually worse than a giant with the same stats. At least for weapon/martial skills.