Hello

[geltz]

Hello all.

Nice to see roguelikes still have such a vibrant community! I used to play some years ago, and recently during some late hour browsing the name angband came before my eyes again, and so i decided to relive some of the fun.

I am wondering though, as the variant list seems rather populated, if you could give a pointer or two? Back in the day i played some vanilla, but also Zangband and later GSNband, the latter two being preferable to me, what with the wilderness, quest dungeons, and more choices in the race, class departments, along with varied magical realms. Having looked around for them, i noticed that both of those variants are no longer being developed? I wondered if one of the active variants became the "successor" to zang, and more importantly, gsnband?

So in short, would you be so kind as to recommend a -band which in your experiences is most similar to those 2?

regards
- geltz.

[Philip]

I have no idea what GSNband is, but I think you might enjoy Chengband. There is also Z+angband.

[geltz]

Re:Hello

Thanks for a quick answer, i'll have a look at Cheng and Z+.

GSNband was an old variant based on Zangband 2.2 i believe, minus the Amber stuff.

Some info about it here:

http://www.angband.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/gsn.html

[Derakon]

None of the Z-derived variants are still actively maintained, sadly. At least as far as I know. Of course that doesn't mean that their latest versions aren't playable.

Off the top of my head, active modern variants include FA, Sil, Un, NPP, S, and a few more niche ones that aren't as stridently publicized (apologies for those I missed). Oh, and there's v4, which is something like a cross between a variant and a dev branch -- the Vanilla devs put their more extreme ideas there.

FA and Un both have wildernesses, though they aren't quite as feckless as Z was. NPP is a solid contender for "like Vanilla but moreso". Vanilla itself is quite different from how it used to be -- much more accessible and sadly rather easier as well. I'd suggest just trying everything out that sounds good rather than searching out your old haunting grounds; a lot's changed in the last ten years and it'd be a shame to miss something you'd like.

[will_asher]

DAJ is semi-active. It's been (I think) since last May, but I am hoping to make a release sometime in the next week or two. no wilderness though, and I don't know how much like Zangband it is.

[geltz]

thanks

Thanks for your suggestions!

I downloaded a few variants, and decided to start from v4, as a "modern vanilla", so i could have some kind of baseline to compare other variants to later on. Also its quite interesting to see what new options and changes are being introduced to a classic of many years. I'll post any thoughts in the relevant forum section, assuming feedback is wanted, even if coming from a relative newbie

regards
- geltz

[Antoine]

This is going to be interesting

[buzzkill]

Isn't v4 incredibly buggy and unbalanced right now?

If you're looking for something similar to Vanilla, I'd go with DAJ or NPP.

[PowerWyrm]

Hello all.

Nice to see roguelikes still have such a vibrant community! I used to play some years ago, and recently during some late hour browsing the name angband came before my eyes again, and so i decided to relive some of the fun.

I am wondering though, as the variant list seems rather populated, if you could give a pointer or two? Back in the day i played some vanilla, but also Zangband and later GSNband, the latter two being preferable to me, what with the wilderness, quest dungeons, and more choices in the race, class departments, along with varied magical realms. Having looked around for them, i noticed that both of those variants are no longer being developed? I wondered if one of the active variants became the "successor" to zang, and more importantly, gsnband?

So in short, would you be so kind as to recommend a -band which in your experiences is most similar to those 2?

regards
- geltz.

If you want a challenging variant, try mine. It's mainly V3.3 with more races/classes... but in realtime. And you can play with your friends, as it is multiplayer!

[geltz]

Well, i don't know about "unbalanced", i guess having been away from -bands for so long i don't have a defined idea as to what balanced should be, at the moment. I've been playing v4 a bit and enjoying it quite a lot, although some things struck me as a little strange.

Started a kobold mage, since i wanted a bit of a challenge, and in the past i always chose warriors/chaos warriors etc, "meat-head" types, this seemed like a fresh breeze. First few levels were spent dodging gruesome death by a hair's width, usually at the menacing hand of no other than a giant white mouse or two, or my mage's not so distant cousin, the small kobold.

Around level five things started to get progressively easier, as with new levels came new spells, bigger mana pool etc. One thing i did not expect though.

Around dungeon level 7 or 8 i found a Silver Tulwar of Venom (+24,+39) <+53>.
Now i always assumed mages, and especially those from a meek little race like a kobold, would be absolutely rubbish at melee. However, to my surprise i still was able to wield said blade rather effectively, which allowed me to save my mana a few times. Wormtongue got cut down rather quickly, as peltering him with magic missiles didnt seem to do much, he simply outhealed the damage, and my spell points were too few to keep spamming frost bolts. So i just let him catch up to me and pretty much "tanked" him.
On a few other occassions, having ran into a roomful of cave orcs i parked myself in a corridor and meleed them down without really needing to quaff more than 1-2 serious wound potions every few orcs or so. Unexpected.

Also, is it usual for the shops' inventories to stay pretty much the same for long periods of time? According to the help file (don't know how updated they are) 10000 turns spent underground is enough time to get new stuff on the shelves, but i can still see a couple of things i sold at level 8. I am now 21, and haven't been diving fast at all; i sort of tend to linger around the levels a bit too much, probably.

Must say the new Identify mechanic is great though. It's nice to be able to find out everything about the new cloak 'Holcolleth' i just got by using a normal Identify spell, without needing expensive and rare scrolls.

After all i dont really miss the wilderness that much, it turns out. Plenty of fun to be had in the dungeon, although i did try to Polymorph every single 't' on the town level when i first got the spell, in some faint hope that perhaps the transformed townfolk would have at each other, giving me a breather from the nagging and half-arsed attempts to steal my money. I wonder, is monster alignment significant enough in any variant to have them attack each other, or cast helpful spells on each other, for example? (meaning an orc shaman would heal a hill orc, for example, and that they would both attack a paladin before attacking each other)

Another thing i noticed is that when i met an orc unique, Golfimbul, he didn't rally the surrounding horde of 20 or so cave orcs, he simply let them slumber, and proceeded to chase me down a corridor on his own. Seems kinda weird, although i thought it might have to do with the fact that his title was "the Hill Orc Chief" while the sleeping, green "o"s filling most of his throne room were of the cave variety. Orc politics, go figure.

On another note, real-time multiplayer angband does sound rather intrigueing; i just hope people dont sit outside town gates or dungeon entrances, waiting to "relieve" the new adventurer of his possessions, like some folks used to do in diablo 2 Still, i'm sure i will get around to giving it a go;

Hope this hasn't been too much of a wall of text.

regards
- geltz

[Derakon]

v4 doesn't have the same level of testing in its releases as normal variants do, so yes, it's going to be buggier and less balanced than "usual". Thus, if you do play v4, your feedback is always appreciated!

Interesting that you were able to stand in melee so easily with that weapon. I'm guessing the main change here is that chance-to-hit was reworked so that you always start from a base 75% hit rate. This is then increased slightly by your finesse and decreased by monster evasion. I'd guess that previously mages would be very happy to achieve a 75% hit rate. We may need to further nerf mage combat skills in the early game. The goal is for mage combat to be a semi-viable last resort with ordinary gear (that is, if you run out of mana you're willing to plink away at your enemy if you have to), and occasionally a viable replacement for spells with good gear. Certainly the intent was not to allow mages to become warriors so readily.

Most variants don't have monsters wake each other up, cast spells on each other, or otherwise interact in any particularly significant fashion. Factions / alignments are also usually not in the game; everything is out to kill you, or at least harass you.

[Magnate]

@geltz: thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you found v4 at least playable - it does seem that melee is a bit easier than we intended, at least in this game. I haven't found many others coming to the same conclusion, so there are lots of factors to rule out. The thing I wanted to warn you about is that archery in v4 isn't "finished", it's currently an uncomfortable hybrid between the old system and the new. Otherwise v4 should not be particularly buggy right now.

[PowerWyrm]

On another note, real-time multiplayer angband does sound rather intrigueing; i just hope people dont sit outside town gates or dungeon entrances, waiting to "relieve" the new adventurer of his possessions, like some folks used to do in diablo 2 Still, i'm sure i will get around to giving it a go

In my variant, PKing is disabled by default. Two players must "agree" to enter "duel mode" by both declaring hostility. So clearly give it a try