[Un] Unangband 0.6.2-wip7a has been released

**andrewdoull** · November 2, 2007, 08:15

Any freeware author thrives on feedback - it's basically the equivalent of money for them. This is doubly so in the highly competitive world of Angband variants. And you see, I haven't had any. So what do you think of the latest Unangband release? Too easy? Too hard? Too boring? Too interesting? Overwhelming?

**Frumple** · November 3, 2007, 07:04

Feedback Uber Alles

Feedback, from utterly random individual #503, presented in no particular order... though not neccisarily all pertaining to this particular version, as I've dabbled on and off with Un for a while now.

Firstly, the standard disclaimer -- when it comes to *band varients, in most cases, I utterly blow, skill-wise... I hate scumming, and have horridly little patience for it, as well as limited playing time (and even less will to drag out playing the same character/game over an extended period), and thus am missing the attributes that make most *bands playable for the mediocre gamer. Secondly, though I've spent some hours on Un, beyond cheating my way down to some lower dungeons (More on that fiasco later) I haven't really gotten too far into Un. Basically, I'm probably not the best of folks to give response, but whatever; I've got a few minutes.

Taking from the top:

Chargen.
It's got a few bugs, but the only ones I know of are reported elsewhere (I've checked, heh), so there's no complaints there -- beyond that, my current favorite roguelikes (Gearhead, Incursion, and, slightly distanced from the basis of the genre, Dwarf Fortress) are all in various beta/alpha stages, so I'm very used to instability, and in considerably larger amounts than I've ran into with Un. Basically, minor bugs aren't an issue, though if I run into repeatable ones, I mention it (after checking it's not already been reported).
*Races/classes/styles: You've distanced yourself from Ang. You've got more races, several of which add unique twists on normal game play. Classes are also expanded, and, with the inclusion of styles, can also expand upon the original. Listen not to any naysayers, this is a great thing... and could be made better with further documentation, yeah? Last time I rolled a fellow, there's nothing really said about a lot of the characters you can choose, beyond some middling words about the Shadow Faeries, and the other "unlockables" (or just flipping the option that lets you choose them) seem neat.

Overall for that aspect? Thumbs up, more or less.
Suggestions? Well, the bugs to be stamped out, always nice, but that's a middling thing. Updated documentation (Which, I suppose, may be there and I just missed it) would be nice, for me at least -- I like to have the story/world be a surprise, not what I'm playing through it with. Lastly, though I've little doubt it's at crosses with your design plan, it'd be nice to see the styles/classes do a bit more than what they do now... plusses and early access to spells is nice and all, but it'd be nicer if there were more... solid effects involved. Though I'm not saying copy the work or anything, I'd probably suggest to you (heck, any *band designer) to look at Incursion and the class variations between them, how extreme they can be, and how utterly fufilling those differences can be. Few of the bands manage this, and it's definately a worthy goal in my unworthy eyes. Of course, on a less extreme path, something like Gearhead's martial arts effects (Enhanced skill allows special attacks of sorts -- in Un's case, it'd be like a 10th level One-hander be able to occasional set its foe on fire on a successful strike, or a caster's fireball occasional stun/confuse/whatever the things it hits.) would be interesting to see.

In Game
The towns (read:campaign) are neat, though it'd be nice to see some more extreme variations on the standard 'square shop' designs -- some more flavor, yeah? Just having multiple ones is nice enough, and being able to control where you travel to, with some impact behind those decisions, is nice as well. I can't really recall anything similar in other roguelikes, though some of the stuff in ToME/Furyband has features along these lines. Hell, thinking on it, maybe even impliment a (perhaps optional) 'walk-in' design for buildings -- there's an old(er) *band that does this, and it's pretty neat... and would allow the implementation of greater "atmosphere" to the towns.

Item wise... I love the additional stuff, the spores, the coatings, etc, so forth, and their various interactions with the world they're in. All very nice. The downside is that it's a little opaque on how to use them, from time to time (not always, mind, but...), and that detracts from the overall effect... though not much. Basically documentation woes again, though that's not that big of a deal, especially with a WiP.

Combat! ... it's a band. There's some neat stuff added (charging, dual-weilding, etc. in melee, the multitude of added spells as far as magic goes (Heng/Entroband (and a few others) tells us this is a good thing, and it is.), and all in all it's an improvement in my eyes from vanillia... and many other varients. But, again, it's a band, and the combat tends to be more intellectual than visceral... not a bad thing, per se, but not quite as... meaty. Look again to Incursion, or Gearhead, or IVAN, or (within bands) Steamband, or Dwarf Fortress, for some combat with slightly more kick to it. It might not be a goal for you, but any of them may have some concepts within that could 'spice' things up a bit. Still, as with all WiPs it's, well, a WiP. I'll love to see the finished product regardless, heh.

Balance! Not the best of people to comment (by far), but whatever, some words: I'd like to see the early game compacted. It's an important part of the game, but the fact of the matter tends toward, well... you're wimpy. You don't have access to your class's defining features. You're facing the mighty threat of... rats. And starvation, 'cause yer dirt poor if you don't go slaughtering townspeople, which is kinda' unrighteous. Am I saying slap everyone with 10 mil xp and let 'em loose? No. But, among the bands, I look to Steamband for an example of an improvement -- it literally halves the game's length, in comparison to other bands... and is way more platable because of it. It's most definately a personal preference, but the sooner my class is fleshed out and doing neat stuff, aka 'mid-game' and still being challenged, the happier I tend to be... and however neat it is to take out Maggot's mutts with thrown dead fungus, a paladin death-machine that makes not... which, to be honest, Un doesn't have that much of a problem with it as most bands do, but the effect is still there.

Basically, the early-game is an improvement from vanillia and many of its ilk, but could use some more spicing up, either by reducing the amount of time one's stuck in it, or giving the various classes more defining low-level attributes. Perhaps starting to beat a dead horse, but... look, again, to Incursion. Pretty much all of its classes play considerably different early games, and in pretty much none of them is there a "grind" sensation. In short, there's a lessened "Alright. Kill the rat, so I can get to 10/20/30/w/e and hunt some Orc." effect. For me, that's a good thing.

Mid-game... eh. Haven't spent enough time there to comment, but what little I have done was promising, as things started to get more interesting as the classes expanded into their roles and neater critters were encountered... and then I died, or wanted to swith classes, or was enticed off by something else, or... well, you get the idea.

Late game... I've played around with it a bit, and signs point to it being horrifically difficult. To put it this way, at one point, I ran into a particular creature (Eye Hive Tyrant, or something like that.) that was litterally spreading (Summon kin and massive speed, I guess) faster than I could ctrl+A z it away, and even without that, my suped up cheated-to-the-nines Ubermench was having trouble denting various denizens in solo combat, to say nothing of when encountering groups... it was kinda' disheartening. Though, in some ways, perhaps not unacceptable... it would definately be a departure (in my experience, at least), where the endgame critters were your match, or even your better. Would make for interesting encounters, though probable frustrating for someone that didn't cheat their way there.

Conclusion
A little bit of negativity in my words, I suppose, but don't take it the wrong way -- I'm actually very impressed with the work you've done, and many of the features (I'm particularly impressed by the various terrain additions... and would be more so if I could make more sense of how to mess with them, heh. The work being done on 'ecologies' seems pretty neat, too.) are departures, improvements, and worthy additions to the hallowed halls of Angband varients. It doesn't suit my tastes in roguelikes as much as it would have a year or three ago, but Unangband is still carries many features that are both pleasing and impressive to me. Un's on my list o'roguelikes to keep an eye on, heh.

Few minutes up, and words said. May some of it be of use, good sir.

**andrewdoull** · November 3, 2007, 11:08

Originally posted by Frumple

Feedback, from utterly random individual #503

Always appreciated. Not sure how much I can take away and directly implement, but nonetheless. I suspect I'll write a fuller response in due course on the blog. I've definitely considered shortening the game from 100 levels to 50 - probably the easiest way to balance this in the short term is by making each set of stairs drop 100 feet (2 levels). Making character levels half as frequent but give twice the benefits would also scale up the difference between levels and allow level 1 to be more 'significant'. Unangband already has more powerful level 1 characters than Angband in many ways - level 1 mages have a lot more mana, for instance, but this is balanced by monsters being harder to hit in melee.

Though I'm not saying copy the work or anything, I'd probably suggest to you (heck, any *band designer) to look at Incursion and the class variations between them, how extreme they can be, and how utterly fufilling those differences can be

One question about Incursion: I was under the impression in the D20 system that you couldn't directly use the core AD&D 3rd edition material, and it seems (from a distance) that Incursion is...

I'm not likely to spend the time playing Incursion, so if you could elaborate on the various play styles, it would be appreciated (It's probably worth pointing out that I'm unlikely to have the technical skill or inclination to write a byte-code interpreter as a part of Unangband for instance). I've had a brief read through of the documentation, which is comprehensive - I thought I was being complex, but then, you also list Dwarf Fortress on your bonafides, so

One thing I'm trying to steer clear of is lots of hierarchical command menus for using abilities. There's a couple of classes that do that already (mages, priests with spell books) and I'd prefer not to have a warrior special moves menu if at all possible (on the basis that people who choose warriors are steering clear of the mage/priest gamut of choice).

Though, in some ways, perhaps not unacceptable... it would definately be a departure (in my experience, at least), where the endgame critters were your match, or even your better. Would make for interesting encounters, though probable frustrating for someone that didn't cheat their way there.

Rogue, is a classic example of where endgame critters are your match or better. Steamband, as well from what I understand has a dangerous last few levels... but I agree that the end-game in Unangband definitely has more balancing to do.

Few minutes up, and words said. May some of it be of use, good sir.

Thanks again.

Andrew

**zaimoni** · November 3, 2007, 15:19

Originally posted by andrewdoull

One question about Incursion: I was under the impression in the D20 system that you couldn't directly use the core AD&D 3rd edition material, and it seems (from a distance) that Incursion is...

There is, unfortunately, considerable overlap between the generic material (bundled with the d20 meta-system behind AD&D 3.5 ed.), core AD&D 3rd ed., and core AD&D 3.5 ed.

I'm pretty sure Incursion isn't using 3rd ed. because hit dice are indefinite, but beyond that I'd actually have to know the details of the published settings to be sure it wasn't reusing those.

**Frumple** · November 3, 2007, 19:33

Originally posted by andrewdoull

One question about Incursion: I was under the impression in the D20 system that you couldn't directly use the core AD&D 3rd edition material, and it seems (from a distance) that Incursion is...

D&D's got some kind of license in which you can use the materials of one edition or another, so long as you don't directly reference the franchise name, iirc, and Inc works with that license, in some way. Beyond that, Incursion isn't a direct port, by any stretch of the imagination, as those more versed in D&D than I have made comment on the various differences between Inc and its major inspiriation.

Originally posted by andrewdoull

One thing I'm trying to steer clear of is lots of hierarchical command menus for using abilities.

A worthy goal -- in the example I mentioned, Gearhead's martial arts system, it's not a menu-selected choice, it just happens from time to time, a 'lucky /strike' kind of thing, and Incursion, which does have many ability menu type things, has a very simple and intuitive hotkey system. Beyond that, anything that reduces keypresses without forcing the user to use macros is a serious plus in my to-be-carpal-ridden wrists.

Originally posted by andrewdoull

I'm not likely to spend the time playing Incursion, so if you could elaborate on the various play styles, it would be appreciated

/Horn toot warning\
Oh dear... well, as you noticed, the game is based -- to a large degree -- on the D&D ruleset, whose class system is, in all seriousness, far more flexible than almost anything seen in band varients (There are some that channel a similar spirit; Portralis (Formerly NewAngband) for example.) Multiclassing and the available presitage classes means that one can twist their character to fit an impressive amount of varied playing styles -- I've personally beat the game as a summoner archtype x2, a 'blaster mage', a 'buffer mage', a dual-wielding heavy-armor using warrior, and a diplomat, and it's been completed by a whole host of other styles -- sneak-thief, assassin-style, archer, item-user, etc.

That being said, I believe I recommened looking at Incursion's early game more than the rest of it -- the big, huge, amazing difference between it and the average band is that it gives you a fleshed out character, straight from level one. A druid, for example, can start off shape-shifting into deadly creatures, calling forth hordes of animal allies, drawing trees from the earth, and spitting swarms of ice-shards at people. A warrior starts off with an impressive weapon, and the potential to do some damningly impressive things with it -- for example, you can start the game dual-wielding what are normally two-handed weapons (Though there's some impressive penalties involved, heh.), and there's a whole host of other styles to explore.

Basically, each character starts of with access to multiple class-defining features, right from the get-go... and can use that as a basis to really shine their class's uniqueness through. This is something that generally isn't seen in *bands, at least not straight from the beginning -- the biggest difference between a warrior and a paladin might be that the warrior can hit a little easier, but the pally can bless themselves, and that's, well... it. In Inc, that warrior'll be tripping things, blasting foes from their feet with mighty strikes, and tossing boomerangs with deadly accuracy while its palladin breathren'll be communing with its god, clashing with the forces of evil with a mighty blessed weapon, and riding down the disdained of its god atop hundreds of pounds of charging horseflesh... and each and every class has a similar list o'defining traits.
/Horn tooting stops here\

Of course, am I saying copy or be damned? No, not even remotely -- while there's what I see as improvement to be found in other roguelikes, that doesn't, even remotely, mean that's what you want to do, nor would I insist anything remotely along those lines. Even if you don't implement a single feature along lines that could be inspired from other games, I'll still play Un. It's already one of the better *band varients to me, and looks like it'll be one of the best when it's finished... at least as far as my personal tastes go.

Originally posted by zaimoni

I'm pretty sure Incursion isn't using 3rd ed. because hit dice are indefinite, but beyond that I'd actually have to know the details of the published settings to be sure it wasn't reusing those.

From what I remember, it's not... to the best of my knowledge, it's actually a conglomerate of the rules from multiple editions, with some modifications to make it a functioning CRPG... and some additions made by the creator. I've never personally had the chance to play D&D in person -- my only experience with it has been through games inspried by it, to one degree or another. I think my first go was with the first Darksun, some years back.

**Arralen** · November 15, 2007, 22:30

Here's what I found playing through .. the very first level of the Bree Town Dungeon. (sry. not much spare time at the job these days

)
Maybe some of those have already been reported as bugs, or are WAD and I only haven't read up all the txt files thoroughly enough ..

___ MESSAGES ___
- long messages in message screen do not wrap (long lines in recall window do wrap, btw.)

- messages from overland travel are either scrolled away instantly in main window, or not shown at all. (easy_more)

- I missing dungeon entrances descriptions (e.g. why is there a dungeon in Bree, what is it ?). I know there is a "note" for beginner players, yet it would be nice to have something like the "travelling messages" ("You have a long trip. You enter Bree." => "You see the entrance to the sewers, where the warm-up monsters are ready to greet you ..")

___ GUI ___
- the info line at the bottom of the main screen does not seem to be right-aligned: If you make the screen size to(o) small, the "level x" indicator will vanish. Yet there's plenty of room left on the left ...

- on downsizing the main window, characters from the map will stay in place even in the location of the status row. Resizing the main window should result in an auto-"CTRL-R"

- "~", "features" .. when left/right scrolling in the font tables the cursor square vanishes if you scroll to the left until the very first character "detaches" front the vertical seperator. It appears again after scrolling to the left until the first character in the line disappears on the left again.

- I would like to open doors on movement, but not to disable traps automatically...

___ GAMEPLAY ___

- searching should not turn a lit fireplace into an empty one: you don't want to extinguish light sources while looking for traps, right?

- likewise, searching should not search a wall 4 squares away and in total darkness

- "You miss the Apprentice Mage. The Apprentice Mage casts a magic missile at granite wall."
#@##
%.q%
#...

- Pseudo-ID .. turned out to be sporadically instant with a dwarf bard with ring spec. I really wonder how this is supposed to work?! Very fast pseudo-ID (especially compared with some other *band variants) is a good thing IMHO. No need for that tedious micromanagement of lugging around 100 ?ID or the whole crap for 1500 turns or bringing it back to town only to find it's all cursed. Alas, one item didn't ID even after a thousand turns or so:

- "a Set of Leather Gloves" does not pseudo-ID after quite some turns. Yet, the armory is not willing to buy it .. how does the shopkeeper know it's cursed?

- "a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+5] {magical}" at DL 1 ??!!??

- started out with a "Zinc ring of Teleportation" ???!! Which seemingly doesn't do anything, though ...

**Arralen** · November 15, 2007, 23:39

OK, I cheated a bit - saved the char and "Q"uitted ... but hey, we're playing a WIP version here

:P Below is (part of) the char dump:

Note the un-pseudo-ID glovves (in my home) are actually -6 broken .. but it seems this is unobservable for the player?

Also t) and u) instant-pseudo-Id as {average}, yet they did not stack and therefore I concluded that something was up. -2 broken shouldn't qualitify as {average}, right? Or is there some easy way to repair it?

And -most important- why do I start with a broken ring of Teleportation? Even if it wasn't broken, it wouldn't be that useful would it?

Code:

 [Unangband 0.6.2 Character Dump]

 Name   Droska, the Bard                         Self  SB  EB  TB   Best   Curr
 Sex    Female             Age       40  STR:      18  +0  +0  +0     18
 Race   Dwarf              Height  3' 9  INT:      14  +0  +0  +0     14
 Class  Bard               Status     9  WIS:      11  +0  +0  +0     11
 Style  Rings                            DEX:      17  +0  +0  +0     17
 Title  Busker                           CON:      16  +0  +0  +0     16
 Home   At the Prancing Pony in Bree     CHR:      13  +0  +0  +0     13
 Target Bree                             AGI:      11  +0  +0  +0     11
                                         SIZ:       9  +0  +0  +0      9
 Level            4  Hit-Points  35/35  Fight     (+1,+2)  Fighting        Good
 Curr Exp        74  Spell-Pts   11/11  1Hand     (+2,+2)  Shooting    Very Bad
 Max Exp         74  Hit die        10  Free               Throwing        Iffy
 Adv Exp         24  Armor     [14,+6]  Blows  1/turn(x1)  Stealth          Bad
 Depth      Lev   1  Infravis    50 ft  Shoot     (+2,+0)  Save Throw Very Good
 MaxDepth   Lev   2  Gold          303  Shots  0/turn(x0)  Disarming       Iffy
 Game Turn   117452  Burden     65 lbs  Throw     (+2,+0)  Devices         Good
 Plr Turn      6170  &#37; Burden      32%  Hurls  1/turn(x1)  Searching       Good
 Act Turn      5498  Speed      Normal  Weight     84 lbs  Digging         Fair

 You are the only child of a Dwarven Thief.  You are a credit to the
  *snip*
> Looks like any other level.

  [Character Equipment]

a) a Quarterstaff (1d9) (+0,+0)
b) (nothing)
c) (nothing)
d) a Ring of Teleportation
   It is broken, having been blasted by powerful magic.  
e) (nothing)
f) a Brass Lantern (with 13439 turns of light left) {10% off}
g) Hard Leather Armour (-1) [6,+0] {10% off}
h) a Cloak [1,+0]
i) (nothing)
j) a Metal Cap [3,+0]
k) a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+5]
   It is of good quality, but with no additional powers.  
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0]

  [Character Inventory]

a) a Song Book of Chords
b) 4 Mushrooms of Cure Paranoia
c) 5 Strips of Beef Jerky
d) 4 handfuls of Berries
e) a Pint of Fine Ale
f) a Potion of Slime Mold Juice
g) a Potion of Boldness
h) a Potion of Resist Heat
i) a Potion of Resist Cold
j) a Potion of Cure Light Wounds
k) a Potion of Slow Poison
l) a Potion of Confusion
   It is broken, having been blasted by powerful magic.  
m) a Scroll of Phase Door
n) 2 Scrolls of Treasure Detection
o) a Scroll of Detect Life
p) 2 Scrolls of Sense Magic
q) a Scroll of Detect Curse
r) a Robe [2,+0]
s) a Cloak [1,+2]
   It is of good quality, but with no additional powers.  
t) 4 Pairs of Leather Sandals [1,+0]
u) a Pair of Leather Sandals [1,-2]
   It is broken, having been blasted by powerful magic.  
v) a Pair of Soft Leather Boots [2,+0]
w) a Broken Dagger (1d1) (+1,+1)
   It is of good quality, but with no additional powers.  

  [Home Inventory]

a) a Set of Leather Gloves [1,-6]
   It is broken, having been blasted by powerful magic.

**andrewdoull** · November 16, 2007, 00:39

Originally posted by Arralen

Here's what I found playing through .. the very first level of the Bree Town Dungeon. (sry. not much spare time at the job these days

)
Maybe some of those have already been reported as bugs, or are WAD and I only haven't read up all the txt files thoroughly enough ..

___ MESSAGES ___
- long messages in message screen do not wrap (long lines in recall window do wrap, btw.)

This is the same as Angband. Use left/right arrow to scroll.

- messages from overland travel are either scrolled away instantly in main window, or not shown at all. (easy_more)

Easy_more is very much wip.

- I missing dungeon entrances descriptions (e.g. why is there a dungeon in Bree, what is it ?). I know there is a "note" for beginner players, yet it would be nice to have something like the "travelling messages" ("You have a long trip. You enter Bree." => "You see the entrance to the sewers, where the warm-up monsters are ready to greet you ..")

You can add a description for any dungeon in dungeon.txt. Feel free to contribute - I've asked for these from people before.

___ GUI ___
- the info line at the bottom of the main screen does not seem to be right-aligned: If you make the screen size to(o) small, the "level x" indicator will vanish. Yet there's plenty of room left on the left ...

The left hand side is for status effects (e.g. drained Str etc).

- I would like to open doors on movement, but not to disable traps automatically...

Again, this is currently as per Angband.

___ GAMEPLAY ___

- searching should not turn a lit fireplace into an empty one: you don't want to extinguish light sources while looking for traps, right?

Correct. Suggestions for how to indicate the fireplace has been searched are welcome.

- "You miss the Apprentice Mage. The Apprentice Mage casts a magic missile at granite wall."
#@##
%.q%
#...

You dodged and the Apprentice mage as a result was not able to hit you with his magic missile. I'm unsure how to indicate this - as the dodge effect is calculated when the mage is selecting which spell to cast, not when they actually cast it. You'd see a lot of spurious ("You dodge.") messages if I take the naive approach.

- Pseudo-ID .. turned out to be sporadically instant with a dwarf bard with ring spec. I really wonder how this is supposed to work?! Very fast pseudo-ID (especially compared with some other *band variants) is a good thing IMHO. No need for that tedious micromanagement of lugging around 100 ?ID or the whole crap for 1500 turns or bringing it back to town only to find it's all cursed. Alas, one item didn't ID even after a thousand turns or so:

All pseudo-id is instant and at item creation time now - there is no timed pseudo-id. You'll randomly get either a 'strong' pseudo-id or 'weak' pseudo id result (chance is level dependent), and can upgrade any 'weak' one to a 'strong' one with scrolls of sense magic. Note the type of pseudo-id you get is class dependent, with bardic pseudo-id being one of the better ones.

You will notice if items you are wearing provide e.g. regeneration, after a period of time.

- "a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+5] {magical}" at DL 1 ??!!??

Isn't this a good thing?

- started out with a "Zinc ring of Teleportation" ???!! Which seemingly doesn't do anything, though ...

It activates for teleportation.

Andrew

**Bandobras** · November 16, 2007, 01:01

Originally posted by Arralen

Here's what I found playing

Do you really use wip7a? Change to wip7b or wait a bit for wip7c (I guess it's the right time, BTW:-). If you want to contribute (you are welcome!) best get latests sources from SVN and mangle those.

- long messages in message screen do not wrap (long lines in recall window do wrap, btw.)

Feature.

- messages from overland travel are either scrolled away instantly in main window, or not shown at all. (easy_more)

Turn off auto_more, it is only for messages in a separate window, I guess. Easy_more is mostly OK.

About the other bugs, please wait for wip7c and try to reproduce them. Some of them are known, then some are supposedly fixed in wip7b or wip7c. In particular the starting rings are supposed to be cursed and teleport you around randomly, until uncursed. Feature. They should also activate for teleportation when uncursed, but only when worn (a serious trade-off when you find 3 good rings of speed, because you can wear only 3 not 4). And tele through rings has high failure rate, unlike through scrolls, unless you invest lots into INT.

**Arralen** · November 16, 2007, 06:54

Oh, folks, didn't meant to unsettle anyone

Now, lemme see how I can set things right again

Here's what I found playing

Do you really use wip7a?

ZIP file said "unangband062wip7bwin" ..

Guess I hit the wrong thread erroneously .. but I think I'll continue here, and if it's really needed a mod can move all the 4 posts over to the right thread...

___ MESSAGES ___
- long messages in message screen do not wrap (long lines in recall window do wrap, btw.)

This is the same as Angband. Use left/right arrow to scroll.

I cannot scroll window TERM-3 using left/right arrow keys, because those will move the @ in the main window .. . TERM windows do wrap for monster recall etc. - shouldn't this be possible for the message recall as well.
Sorry, should have made more clear that it's not about the "CTRL-P" message recall.

- I would like to open doors on movement, but not to disable traps automatically...

Again, this is currently as per Angband.

What does not make it any better. Other *bands (still) have the old seperate options which are much more useful IMHO.

You dodged and the Apprentice mage as a result was not able to hit you with his magic missile. I'm unsure how to indicate this - as the dodge effect is calculated when the mage is selecting which spell to cast, not when they actually cast it. You'd see a lot of spurious ("You dodge.") messages if I take the naive approach.

Maybe a slight hint that something went "wrong" for the monster - like e.g. "The Apprentice Mage casts a magic missile at ... granite wall."

started out with a "Zinc ring of Teleportation" ???!! Which seemingly doesn't do anything, though ...

=> It activates for teleportation.
=> In particular the starting rings are supposed to be cursed and teleport you around randomly, until uncursed.

I cannot "A"ctivate it ("You have nothing to activate."), and it doesn't teleport me at random as well. It doesn't seem to be cursed either, though - I can take it of as I wish. It doesn't pseudo-ID as well, but the ring spec after some time (level gain?) told me it is "of Teleportation".
Looks like there's some problem with items which are "broken, having been blasted by powerful magic." ?!

All pseudo-id is instant and at item creation time now - there is no timed pseudo-id.

I'm pretty sure I had some occurences with some items not IDing instantly. Maybe they were all "broken, having been blasted by powerful magic." - at least some of those I have in the inv now with this flag didn't ID at all. And "a Pair of Leather Sandals [1,-2] It is broken, having been blasted by powerful magic." pseudo-IDs as "average" ?!

I'm not sure but I think I saw some items "update" their ID status after some time, but I'll pay closer attention now that I know how it is supposed to work.

**andrewdoull** · November 16, 2007, 08:01

Originally posted by Arralen

Oh, folks, didn't meant to unsettle anyone

Now, lemme see how I can set things right again

No problem - we're being proactive, not negative.

I cannot scroll window TERM-3 using left/right arrow keys, because those will move the @ in the main window .. . TERM windows do wrap for monster recall etc. - shouldn't this be possible for the message recall as well.
Sorry, should have made more clear that it's not about the "CTRL-P" message recall.

Ah... in which case: I'll have to write some semi-intelligent code for this...

What does not make it any better. Other *bands (still) have the old seperate options which are much more useful IMHO.

Really? I haven't changed the options. AFAICR There's easy_open, which allows you to not have to specify a direction if you are next to exactly one of the terrain you want to open/disarm/modify and easy_alter, which does the automatic open/disarm/modify if you walk into a terrain. e.g. no separation of doors vs traps.

I cannot "A"ctivate it ("You have nothing to activate."), and it doesn't teleport me at random as well. It doesn't seem to be cursed either, though - I can take it of as I wish. It doesn't pseudo-ID as well, but the ring spec after some time (level gain?) told me it is "of Teleportation".
Looks like there's some problem with items which are "broken, having been blasted by powerful magic." ?!

It's working fine - however, you'll notice you'll have guessed it as (of Teleportation?) as opposed to of Teleportation. In general, you cannot activate an item unless it has been identified. The automatic guess in this instance doesn't qualify.

[Edit: just re-read this and disregard the above]

Yep - that sounds like a bug (Just realised you've become aware of the ring via the ring specialist ability). Does anyone know off the top of their head whether an 'aware' but not 'identified' ring of Acid/Ice/Flames can be used in Angband?

I'm pretty sure I had some occurences with some items not IDing instantly. Maybe they were all "broken, having been blasted by powerful magic." - at least some of those I have in the inv now with this flag didn't ID at all. And "a Pair of Leather Sandals [1,-2] It is broken, having been blasted by powerful magic." pseudo-IDs as "average" ?!

I'm not sure but I think I saw some items "update" their ID status after some time, but I'll pay closer attention now that I know how it is supposed to work.

Will discuss this later... its a complicated topic deserving of a big article.

**Big Al** · November 16, 2007, 18:16

Originally posted by andrewdoull

Does anyone know off the top of their head whether an 'aware' but not 'identified' ring of Acid/Ice/Flames can be used in Angband?

A quick debug test looks like no, 'you have nothing to activate' when wearing a unidentified ring of flames (when previous rings of flames have been ID'ed).

[Un] Unangband 0.6.2-wip7a has been released

[Un] Unangband 0.6.2-wip7a has been released

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