My un suggestions

[Adley]

Just to keep track of a few idea i'd like to see implemented / things i'd like to see changed in Unangband :
-Shadow breeders. Those, i believe, are meant to be the most annoying monsters in the game, because they'll appear in that greater vault with a greater wyrm of power which you want to kill for fame. They're very good at that, because even with darkness resist, you cannot take 40 breaths/turn.
My complaint about them is their experience giving. When i met and killed one of those guys, i basicly fled not because i was afraid, but because i was feeling that i was gaining too much experience. This needs to be nerfed, especially since they're quite manageable in a corridor.
-Something at the end of Numenor. That was hard... for nothing? Meh. A unique which could live under water and swim and see and breathe through it would be themed enough, and make Numenor a bit more worth visiting, Especially if that unique is though.
-Same request for crystal castle, elemental evil temple.
-Statues giving more a depicture and less a = you're meeting the monster. And not inscribing them in monster memory.
-Nerf HE allies at the end. holiness is too powerful in their hands.
-give a way to get out of the army of the west other than maps. (or maybe precedent issue was the cause of me failing to notice that possibility?)
-I think you've forgotten a 1 in the Greater Wyrm of Power. Unless they're meant to have the armor rating of a mature dragon... which is what monster memory and beating one to death very quickly showed.

hope it helps.

[Adley]

I'm also going to do a "Is it a bug or a feature" part in this thread :
-Glaive of pain can be HEAVILY enchanted (+47 to damage atm)

[andrewdoull]

Just to keep track of a few idea i'd like to see implemented / things i'd like to see changed in Unangband :
-Shadow breeders. Those, i believe, are meant to be the most annoying monsters in the game, because they'll appear in that greater vault with a greater wyrm of power which you want to kill for fame. They're very good at that, because even with darkness resist, you cannot take 40 breaths/turn.

These are stolen from Sangband - I'd like to hear comments on how they play in that variant.

My complaint about them is their experience giving. When i met and killed one of those guys, i basicly fled not because i was afraid, but because i was feeling that i was gaining too much experience. This needs to be nerfed, especially since they're quite manageable in a corridor.

This is a result of the experience value being algorithmically determine. I'll see what I can do here.

-Something at the end of Numenor. That was hard... for nothing? Meh. A unique which could live under water and swim and see and breathe through it would be themed enough, and make Numenor a bit more worth visiting, Especially if that unique is though.
-Same request for crystal castle, elemental evil temple.

Sea, Sky and Earth. Hmm... I've figured out what I'm going to put there. But it may not be especially canon and you may not necessarily like it...

-Statues giving more a depicture and less a = you're meeting the monster. And not inscribing them in monster memory.

I see where you're coming from... I've got a plan for statues, which involves them and quests, and the fact you will drop them if you teleport in the next version of Unangband.

-Nerf HE allies at the end. holiness is too powerful in their hands.

I'll rate holiness more powerfully; given that you can now also be evil.

-give a way to get out of the army of the west other than maps. (or maybe precedent issue was the cause of me failing to notice that possibility?)

You can always go to the black gate from the Army of the West, and thence into Mordor.

Andrew

[Bostock]

(Shadow breeders) are stolen from Sangband - I'd like to hear comments on how they play in that variant.

Considering their non-perma-levels, I've never understood complaints about easy XP in *bands. To paraphrase Eddie, experience is (almost) always easy to get; it's the loot that's hard.

In any case, [S] Shadow Breeders come at a time where experience the "(almost)" in "(almost) easy" no longer comes up much, so they're all about their threat, which is enormous. I've never had the good fortune to corral them into a corridor anyway, mainly because they take so long to kill that usually they're managing you and not the other way around. I think they move erratically too, which helps, i.e. hurts.

So for me, they're a *destruction*, *genocide, or flee moment.

[Adley]

I'll add : leave a way out of the West...
Power up morgoth. he wasn't a pushover (especially due to his quaking) but he was quite easy...

[andrewdoull]

I'll add : leave a way out of the West...
Power up morgoth. he wasn't a pushover (especially due to his quaking) but he was quite easy...

Already working on this. But thanks. Would giving him Curse Armour & Weapon help?

It's the old Angband problem of you can always spend more time preparing for the final fight in a game you can infinitely grind.

Andrew

[Adley]

Already working on this. But thanks. Would giving him Curse Armour & Weapon help?

When i fought him i had no need for swaps. If you make a curse other than sticky, then why not?
Though if you add non teleport to it, we might as well declare the game unwinnable. I don't see myself battling morgoth with less than 50 speed without teleport : getting caught in stone from his quaking reduced my speed from 30 to 5...
Did you reduce his summon rate? he only summond Blue wizard once, which were quickly avoided.
Removing tunelling made him somewhat easier, too... (if you did that. which seems the case)

[Arralen]

Already working on this. But thanks. Would giving him Curse Armour & Weapon help?

Likely. And it would be quite in-theme.

It's the old Angband problem of you can always spend more time preparing for the final fight in a game you can infinitely grind.

mlvl = dlvl * C
C = f (time, (killed evil uniques), clvl, dunno? ) ; "corruption factor"

C could do other nasty things as well, like corrupt the @, reduce "kill evil" brands over time, reduce "good" & boost "bad" spells, etc.

ADOM has something simliar of the same name ... check it out if you havn't already (www.adom.de)

- Something at the end of Numenor. That was hard... for nothing? Meh. A unique which could live under water and swim and see and breathe through it would be themed enough, and make Numenor a bit more worth visiting, Especially if that unique is though.
- Same request for crystal castle, elemental evil temple.

Sea, Sky and Earth. Hmm... I've figured out what I'm going to put there. But it may not be especially canon and you may not necessarily like it...

No elemental spirits, or majar, please ... wait ... Crystal Castle, Tempel of Elemental Evil ... canon ?!?

Numenor I would turn into a trap for the greedy player:
Offer loot lot better than the dlvl would promise, and have it scale linearily with the dlvl.
mlvl, on the other hand, should grow exponentially. Oh, and make it "always go down, or resurface" or something (if it isn't already, never got there )

A.

[Adley]

"corruption factor"

C could do other nasty things as well, like corrupt the @, reduce "kill evil" brands over time, reduce "good" & boost "bad" spells, etc.

ADOM has something simliar of the same name ... check it out if you havn't already (www.adom.de)

I've played adom. For unangband, one thingi like is taking my time. If you introduce C factor, you remove tourism from Un. And it's one of the major aspects of that variant.

Numenor I would turn into a trap for the greedy player:
Offer loot lot better than the dlvl would promise, and have it scale linearily with the dlvl.
mlvl, on the other hand, should grow exponentially. Oh, and make it "always go down, or resurface" or something (if it isn't already, never got there )
A.

The main problem in Numenor at the moment IS actually going down. I remember reading scrolls of stair creation because there was a bunch of water as large as a detction range between me and a possible place for stairs.

Again, the aim in Numenor is (imo) less game-wise than tourist-wise. Which is why anything to spice up the journey would be welcome.

[EpicMan]

Not to beat a dead horse more than a couple of times, but persistent levels would get rid of the 'Morgoth's harder = more potion grinding' syndrome. And in UnAngband it would allow Andrew to add difficult or poorer-return areas that players might be driven to venture into if they feel the need for more items.

Or you could try removing consumables entirely and replacing them with the tattoo things in TOME4. That would fix the consumable grinding, at the (for me considerable) cost of losing the 'flavor' of consumable potions and scrolls.

[Arralen]

Or you could try removing consumables entirely and replacing them with the tattoo things in TOME4. That would fix the consumable grinding, at the (for me considerable) cost of losing the 'flavor' of consumable potions and scrolls.

Oh, NO !!
Those tattoo thingies are a Very Bad Idea (TR) ... you know, you could read several scrolls/ quaff multiple potions after another - with those tattoos, you have to wait for "cooldown". Means if you're a little bit unlucky and get into a bad spot, you're dead.
Likeswise, the (especially for low-level chars) limited slots mean either
- you have 2 "scrolls/potions" with cooldown (= you are dead), or
- you have to carry infusions/rune stones instead of scrolls/potions, to have access to different effects (= net gain: NULL, at best)

Btw. - have you ever heard of magical tattoos in Middle Earth?
Me neither ...

As for "grinding for consumables" ... simply remove it. Make potions/scrolls either guaranteed in the shops (and yes, shops can have more then 1 screen), or make them unique (stat potions).

rant/
Oh, and while you're at it ... rescale the game (actually applies to all *bands). This whole absurd potions thingie comes from the fact that there are "heal 1d6 pts" and "heal 5000 pts" potion. Now - why should a lvl50 char have 100x the HP than an lvl1 char? Those HP are only a poor substitute for evasion/resistence skills, and a result of badly designed adversaries.
Then, when there's no need to grind for *HEALING* potion, to be able to survive some big boss fight, and the potions themselves can be savely taken out of the game, the whole problem vanishes into thin air ... .
/rant


That said - is there even the need for potion grind in UN? Does it even work?
(Always got killed waaayyy before I even got the chance to think about fighting M ... )

[Adley]

rant/
/rant

that should be [rant][/rant], no?

That said - is there even the need for potion grind in UN? Does it even work?
(Always got killed waaayyy before I even got the chance to think about fighting M ... )

Not really. M at the moment is really fine. And you'll nearly always find greater vaults on the lower levels. And with instant level feelings you can stair hop easily.

[EpicMan]

To be honest I'm not really in favor of the activatable tattoos, just wanted to point out an alternative system. Having played with them a while I kind of like the situations having cooldown "potions" create, although I think I would like it if the flavor where somehow changed to be like potions and scrolls again. I miss having potions and scrolls even though I like the mechanic that replaces them.

[Adley]

Back on Unangand, and as i'm playing an archer, i noticed the following : Diagonal shooting nearly never works. I don't know if this is intentionnal, but, for my hobbit archer, it's kinda painful.

On another subject : it'd be really cool if we could have : i want to go THERE, the game shows me the different roads to go there, with the areas to cross. I choose from the different roads, and each time i land near the border of the map, i travel to the next location. If i get hungry from travelling, the game prompts for "what would you like to eat?" then resumes the travel after the meal.

On yet another subject : is it possible to make it that the quiver organises by equip order, and not by power order?

[Adley]

Yet another addition : archer are overpowered against hordes. I just destroyed two ants nests which were next to each other by pressing ' till there was nothing left (' is my macro for f4*t ie fire my "normal" ammunition at nearest ennemy)