My sling of Buckland isn't working

[Selkie]

So I just found a Sling of Buckland (+7, +3) on dlvl2 that has +4 DEX, +6 shooting speed, and +1 shooting power.

Earlier in the level my ridiculously lucky ranger found a sling of power (+6, +16).

With a standard iron shot 1d4 the Sling of Buckland is putting out just 26.4 damage per round. However, the Sling of Power is putting out 37 damage.

Can somebody explain to me how this is possible? Obviously I see the higher to dam bonus on the sling of power, but the Buckland has +6 shooting speed and +1 power. Surely this must count for more?

And yes, I've tried turning it off and turning it back on again

[Pete Mack]

It is +0.6 shooting speed. And (2.5+3) x 1.6 x 3 << (2.5 +16) x 1 x 2

[Selkie]

I'd always incorrectly assumed +6 shooting speed equated to +6 extra shots. That explains it.

[Pete Mack]

Before fractional shots Sling of Buckland was a great find. It was up to 4× damage multiplier with up to 3 shots per turn. Fractional shots really nerfed it.

[Selkie]

Yep! I'm still wielding it for now because of the +4 Dexterity boost.

In previous versions it was like a machine gun sling.

[Neigeden]

It's worth mentioning that since the extra shots/power are multiplicative bonuses, the Sling of Buckland will benefit from enchanted ammo more; for some level of enchanted ammo the SoB will outpace the Sling of Power

[Sky]

it is maybe time to consider that the extra shot nerf was excessive.

[Grotug]

It does make me sad and I do agree.

The brand your weapons with evil spell on the other hand is nearly as OP as movement speed. Just won with a 9d8 lochaber axe as a paladin.

[fph]

I'd always incorrectly assumed +6 shooting speed equated to +6 extra shots. That explains it.

It used to be like that in older versions (and the numerical bonuses were capped to 2-3). It is a relatively recent change, so it is not reflected in many older guides and documents.

[Sky]

It does make me sad and I do agree.

The brand your weapons with evil spell on the other hand is nearly as OP as movement speed. Just won with a 9d8 lochaber axe as a paladin.

to be honest the only thing that tempts me of 4.2 (having already beaten it first go with an early Blackguard that absolutely massacred Morgoth) is the ridiculous overpoweredness of a MoD of Extra Attacks branded with Slay Evil.


.. i don't think that extra shots were unbalanced; i think RANGER extra shots were unbalanced. At least, when you get to a high enough level and have a spectacular bow of Lothlorien, or in some instances a bow of Extra Shots +2 with a decent +dam. (most Extra Shots come with +1, not +2)

Yeah yeah, doing 700 vs all is bad, but have you taken into consideration that you need good seeker arrows (that could get burned, melted, crushed), and that it's a RANGER, so taking it to CL40+ is a crying pain, and hey, a CL42 mage has MBan and Mana Storm, so we're not really talking gamebreaking here.

I suggested to instead increase +1 the power of the bow and either +1 shot or another +1 potency by CL40.

Let's initially ignore randarts. You can't really control if a randart set is or isn't broken.
I don't think it's desirable to try to nerf endgame gear. The point of Angband is to get to the endgame gear, and often you don't. Once you start to get around CL35, the game is pretty much done, it's not a matter of risk and decision, it's a matter of patience and housekeeping.
So yeah, slings of buckland are really, really strong, but they are not stronger than a mace of disruption, a staff of banishment, a Kelek's, or a RoS +15, also because you're not gonna use up your precious 30 mithril shots of Slay Evil against a bunch of stupid mobs.

The initial idea was to somewhat diminish the shots bonus of the endgame ranger, not to nerf all the ranged weapons.

Oh, also, make +shots and +blows randart bonuses as rare as A:MBan and A:!Enlight, because right now they are too common, at least 1 in 3 randart sets has either of these.


My next project is to build the most obscene ranger ever seen on 4.1.3 - stay tuned.

[Pete Mack]

While bows were certainly balanced in 4.1, they weren't remotely as unbalanced as randarts, where weapons more powerful than Deathwreaker are not uncommon. (And Deathwreaker is insanely rare.) Add in off-weapon blows, and even shots, and things get ridiculous. And the bows with +3 might etc don't help.

But 4.2 ranger isn't bad. 4.2 rogue is: he has only a couple tricks, and little way to protect himself, except the same 3 resistance potions that nearly every class carries.

[Grotug]

@Sky As I recall Derakon and I also both championed Ranger bonus to bow might over extra shots. I also don't understand why Ranger can't get better accuracy as he levels. I mean, Mages have no trouble dealing damage to monsters with 255AC, why can't rangers gain a similar level of accuracy?

Personally, I'd have rangers max out their extra shots at +15 extra shots at CL50 (instead of the current +25 or whatever it is). And give them a bigger to-hit bonus as they level than they get now. And maybe give them a late game spell that gives them +1 extra might.

Anyways, Rangers don't get extra shots with slings, so keeping them as they were didn't seem like such sacrilege to me. I agree with you about the problem of protecting arrows. Seems like one out of two times after a tough fight I lose most of my precious good arrows due to all the crazy stuff that happens in hard Angband fights. I also liked that, thematically, it was fun having the humble sling be the most powerful launcher in the game (not a heavy crossbow as one might expect).

[Pete Mack]

Grotug, it is 1.8.
Yes, the sling was most powerful, but it also has best-rated ammo at 1/2 the rate of other launchers, with no seeker ammo available for Holy Might. And in 4.2 there is no way to improve ordinary ammo, so you can't carry stacks of fire/cold/poison brand at all times.

[Sky]

Grotug, it is 1.8.
Yes, the sling was most powerful, but it also has best-rated ammo at 1/2 the rate of other launchers, with no seeker ammo available for Holy Might. And in 4.2 there is no way to improve ordinary ammo, so you can't carry stacks of fire/cold/poison brand at all times.

?wut

4.2 no longer has seeker HM ?
and no Brand spell?


oh btw, mithril shots may be nice, but they are heavy.

[Pete Mack]

Not at all what I said. Sling ammo is weaker because there's no Seeker shot type. This also means less HM ammo by factor of 2.

?wut

4.2 no longer has seeker HM ?
and no Brand spell?


oh btw, mithril shots may be nice, but they are heavy.