"Doesn't affect granite" bug?

[invisibletroll]

I think I massively misunderstood you. I thought "borg" was some term for when a roguelike automates too much (i.e. you're not playing the game, the game is playing itself). Apparently, you were just talking about a program that someone wrote to play Angband automatically.

No shit, Sherlock! It means both things anyway.
Rogue was borged too. Ages ago. https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/...rogomatic.html

[archolewa]

I'm not justificating the borg thing. It just hasn't been updated since 3.4.1.

I think I massively misunderstood you. I thought "borg" was some term for when a roguelike automates too much (i.e. you're not playing the game, the game is playing itself). Apparently, you were just talking about a program that someone wrote to play Angband automatically.

[invisibletroll]

And yet, you want an extra keypress every time you want to tunnel through the walls. 'Kay.

Also, not quite sure what "The borg is not up to date!" means? Does this mean that it's "modern" and better for the game to automatically explore the dungeon, but not to automatically swap your digger? Seems kind of backwards to me. In Angband at least, swapping diggers requires zero thought, while exploration requires a *lot* of thought. So automating the former makes sense, automating the latter is kind of silly. It makes sense for Crawl's exploration to be automated, because Crawl's exploration game is rather shallow, so it makes sense to automate.


Sure, but that doesn't help when you want to wear a ring, and have to remember that 'p' equips rings...


This one I'm inclined to agree with, though I've got the various invocation commands baked enough into my fingers that it doesn't bother me anymore.

No extra keypresses for tunneling. Ditch the tunneling command for good!
I'm not justificating the borg thing. It just hasn't been updated since 3.4.1.

[archolewa]

The borg is not up to date! Less commands obviously saves fingers.

And yet, you want an extra keypress every time you want to tunnel through the walls. 'Kay.

Also, not quite sure what "The borg is not up to date!" means? Does this mean that it's "modern" and better for the game to automatically explore the dungeon, but not to automatically swap your digger? Seems kind of backwards to me. In Angband at least, swapping diggers requires zero thought, while exploration requires a *lot* of thought. So automating the former makes sense, automating the latter is kind of silly. It makes sense for Crawl's exploration to be automated, because Crawl's exploration game is rather shallow.

Crawl uses "a" and "b" slots to swap weapons with ' key.

Sure, but that doesn't help when you want to wear a ring, and have to remember that 'p' equips rings...

Invocables are activated with the same command. This would be much better with Angband too.

This one I'm inclined to agree with, though I've got the various invocation commands baked enough into my fingers that it doesn't bother me anymore.

[invisibletroll]

Throwing is OP in DCSS, so no need to shift to a launcher. People barely use launchers anymore at all. Using them takes away the shield slot and as far as I remember, centaurs were axed so only expert bow race is gone. Maybe halfling race with a big fustibalus sling is still viable.

DCSS has gone down for years.
Races shouldn't be made unplayable with shitty decisions.
It leads to a situation where few combinations are obvious and the rest are "ironmen".
Balancing issues as always...

[Sphara]

Throwing is OP in DCSS, so no need to shift to a launcher. People barely use launchers anymore at all. Using them takes away the shield slot and as far as I remember, centaurs were axed so only expert bow race is gone. Maybe halfling race with a big fustibalus sling is still viable.

[invisibletroll]

I mean, at least Angband doesnt explore the dungeon and fight monsters for you...



Doesnt crawl have a separate equip command for every type of equipment? Thats got to at least cancel out Angbands separate-command-for-every-invokable.

The borg is not up to date! Less commands obviously saves fingers.
Crawl uses "a" and "b" slots to swap weapons with ' key.
Invocables are activated with the same command. This would be much better with Angband too.
Actually invocations are God abilities in Crawl and evocations are item abilities.

[invisibletroll]

Then we should also have it required to manually swap melee weapon with the shooting weapon when you want to fire arrows. And take an extra turn.

There are other mechanisms in the game designed to make it easier to play the game at the expense of reality. Let's not increase the complexity of the code to have an option which almost nobody will turn on.

No, not quite. Digging and shooting are different things. And making the interface easier (less keypresses) doesn't mean it has to be less realistic.
Although if the game swaps automatically to shovel it will take less turns anyway than to continue with an incapable weapon.
Too many things to remember adds to the fatigue.

[archolewa]

Sounds borg to me if everything would be autoswapped.

I mean, at least Angband doesnt explore the dungeon and fight monsters for you...

Angband keys are simply archaic.

Doesnt crawl have a separate equip command for every type of equipment? Thats got to at least cancel out Angbands separate-command-for-every-invokable.

[mrfy]

I can. It takes time to change the weapon while some monster might lurk on you.

Then we should also have it required to manually swap melee weapon with the shooting weapon when you want to fire arrows. And take an extra turn.

There are other mechanisms in the game designed to make it easier to play the game at the expense of reality. Let's not increase the complexity of the code to have an option which almost nobody will turn on.

[invisibletroll]

Having put a few hours into Crawl myself, I cam say its pretty terrible. The only ranges weapons Ive ever used in that game are tomahawks and javelins, because you use those with a melee weapon equipped.

Swapping is just. That. Tedious.

Dont agree about less swapping though. I only ever shuffle my gear in Angband when I find something new, so I experiment with different loadouts the new gear may unlock. In Crawl Im swapping out gear based on what branch Im about to visit. Not quite as tedious as swapping weapons, but pretty ckose.

Well, blowguns were removed in 0.25 and needles replaced with throwing darts.
Sounds borg to me if everything would be autoswapped.
Angband keys are simply archaic.

[invisibletroll]

I can't imagine ever wanting automatic weapon swapping turned off.

I can. It takes time to change the weapon while some monster might lurk on you.

[archolewa]

I can't imagine ever wanting automatic weapon swapping turned off.

Having put a few hours into Crawl myself, I cam say its pretty terrible. The only ranges weapons Ive ever used in that game are tomahawks and javelins, because you use those with a melee weapon equipped.

Swapping is just. That. Tedious.

Dont agree about less swapping though. I only ever shuffle my gear in Angband when I find something new, so I experiment with different loadouts the new gear may unlock. In Crawl Im swapping out gear based on what branch Im about to visit. Not quite as tedious as swapping weapons, but pretty ckose.

[mrfy]

IMHO Crawl has much less swapping and even less grinding. Automatic weapon swapping should be an option that can be turned off. Don't make assumptions what players want to do...

I can't imagine ever wanting automatic weapon swapping turned off.

[invisibletroll]

Why can you shoot while holding sword & shield? I remember the days of swapping. It was just yesterday, as I played Crawl. Why can you use a staff from the pack? Or drink a potion, read a scroll. How much extra UI hassle do you want and why?

IMHO Crawl has much less swapping and even less grinding. Automatic weapon swapping should be an option that can be turned off. Don't make assumptions what players want to do...