Experience potions -> based on player's level

[tangar]

TL;DR
make Experience potions based on player's level


from T' discord:

[09:38] igroglaz: --
we need to change this potion:

name:Experience
graphics:!:d
type:potion
level:65
weight:4
cost:25000
alloc:50:65 to 100
effect:GAIN_EXP
dice:100000
effect:RESTORE_EXP

[09:38] igroglaz: to make it based on player level
[09:39] igroglaz: otherway if player find it and accidentally drink it (to auto-ID) - he will 'pass' possibility to visit some dugeons -> get loot there
...
[21:50] PowerWyrm: about xp potion you should adjust dice in your local file, maybe 200 * player level
[21:52] PowerWyrm: we should talk about xp potion in angband forum
[21:53] igroglaz: :thumbsup:
[21:53] PowerWyrm: it's fun to find it at 50ft and go level 1 -> level 31 be then what... you'(re stuck with level 1 equiupmetn at level 31
[21:53] PowerWyrm: and you have no other way to ID but sell in shop and lose it cos you won't be able to buy it back
[21:54] PowerWyrm: let's ask V mainteiner if the pot could be made giving xp based on player level

[archolewa]

While I understand the concern with potions of experience in a variant where you have dungeons based on player level (as seems to be the case referenced here), I don't really understand the concern in Vanilla? Being level 31 means you can drop like a stone and very quickly pick up better equipment, so I don't get how "high level, but poor equipment" is a problem.

The only complication I can imagine is that it makes early game stat drains a bigger issue. Despite that, as it is now this is the kind of rare sudden power spike that makes playing Angband so much fun (for me).

That being said, I would be fine with (though not enthusiastic about) the change if the potion was changed to have a much more shallow native level, and/or be more common.

[Sky]

i would remove them altogether.

so, let's say that by CL40 you are ready for morgoth. You may want those extra 10 CL of HP and to-hit bonus. If you are a caster, maybe CL45 for spell failure.

You should have to risk something to get those. And by CL40 the only thing that makes you go up in exp is Greater Wyrms and Balrogs.

or, you know, potions of !Exp which are, right now, the easiest way to level up. If you put side by side two CL40 identical characters, one only uses TO and scrounges for !Exp, and one only kills mobs, the !Exp guy will get to CL50 sooner - DL98 is full of !Exp.

[mrfy]

Keep them as they are, at least in Vanilla. Finding one early is amazingly rare and fun.

[sffp]

As I recall, the original POE would level you up to the next level until you went to needing more than 100K - at which point it would give you 100K

That didn't seem fair to @'s which needed 5 XP to level up so they went to 100K regardless.

They are rarely seen at low level, so I'm fine with them the way they are. But as a hunter/killer rather than a TO/Scrounger - I encourage any change away from Coward's Quest

[archolewa]

They are rarely seen at low level, so I'm fine with them the way they are. But as a hunter/killer rather than a TO/Scrounger - I encourage any change away from Coward's Quest

Personally, I really like potions of experience because avoiding fights is a key part of the game and these potions play into that. My first Rogue win, I avoided most endgame uniques and leveled up with potions of experience, and I loved it. Really made me feel like a sneaky and subtle assassin.

For warriors and paladins, yeah I kill lot in the endgame, but I like having an alternative for the frailer, sneakier classes.

[Sideways]

As I recall, the original POE would level you up to the next level until you went to needing more than 100K - at which point it would give you 100K

Original Potion of Experience was half your previous XP plus 10, or 100K XP, whichever was lower. Still the case in many variants, but as mrfy noted, finding one really early is more fun with the new design.

[jgbrowning]

Keep them as they are, at least in Vanilla. Finding one early is amazingly rare and fun.

Yes! I just found one at Level 18 and poof! now I'm Level 29. It's never happened to me before and was quite exciting.

EDIT: and now a rod of healing! My lucky day.

joe b.

[tangar]

I've modified exp potions in my variant, so they give only lesser exp buff as I've got complex system of dungeon level brackets which makes gameplay especially challanging and remove any possibility to cheeze.. But in V getting lot of levels at once might be fun indeed.

[Sky]

well, they could be modified to add 1 level or 100k, whichever is less. Probably sucks for people who are 1xp away from levelling up, although that's very much a typical Angband thing. In my opinion, 10k xp is plenty to make people happy, but not be too overpowered.

They were probably balanced in a Angband where you still had potions of explosions and winning was more gambling than tactics.

[fph]

I also like them as they are. The occasional game in which one propels you to CLVL30 is odd, but it is just a different challenge (and a memorable one); there are many things in the game that feel more un-fun than this experience to me.

[Pete Mack]

@Sky--
Who cares if the extremely rare OOD !Experience is unbalancing? Rare unbalancing finds are fun! They lead to a different kind of game. It's randarts (and similar issues) that are a real problem: they are unbalanced in every game they are enabled.

[Adam]

well, they could be modified to add 1 level or 100k, whichever is less. Probably sucks for people who are 1xp away from levelling up, although that's very much a typical Angband thing. In my opinion, 10k xp is plenty to make people happy, but not be too overpowered.

They were probably balanced in a Angband where you still had potions of explosions and winning was more gambling than tactics.

To avoid the "1xp away from levelling up" issue you can define the 1 level as "xp milestone difference between @'s current level and next level".
So the given xp would depend only on current level of @, not the actual xp it gained so far.

[whartung]

@Sky--
Who cares if the extremely rare OOD !Experience is unbalancing? Rare unbalancing finds are fun! They lead to a different kind of game. It's randarts (and similar issues) that are a real problem: they are unbalanced in every game they are enabled.

I don't even think it's that unbalancing. it's one thing to have a rush to CL30, it's another to have the gear, resists, etc. to survive at the lower levels. You still have to go through that.

You still don't have the high level spellbooks, etc. You have more mana, and more health, which, while not nothing, aren't the only things needed to run the lower realms.

If anything, you are now overpowered and overconfident enough to be apt to do something stupid that gets you killed, so it may balance out in the end.

[emulord]

I think the old version was fine. The mood whiplash of gaining 25 levels is too crazy. Plus 1 or 2 levels is a noticeable bump in power