A few beginner questions

[moosferatu]

Am I just unlucky, or are decent bows difficult to find?

One more question about stat potions, do they dry up at a certain depth? Or do I not need to be concerned about finding them within a specific depth range?

[Grotug]

I think stat potions get more common the deeper you go. They never thin out, that's for sure.

I'm pretty sure drolems are not detectable by ESP.

Hobbit Ranger has very good device skill so using attack wands makes a lot of sense for a ranger with a lousy launcher.

Sorry your @ died. I love playing Hobbit Rangers since they are so stealthy and have such good accuracy with launchers. I agree with all the other posts in this thread about the importance of ESP. Also, your detect life spell misses a huge number of dangerous monsters: undead.

I was playing a Mage when I found an insanely powerful bow. So disappointing. Good bows may be more reliable with Standard Artifacts, but the Standard set doesn't have any *GREAT* launchers. If you want to find a truly amazing launcher you'll have to play with Random Artifacts. It's so fun when you find one!

With sooo many levels in Angband it really doesn't make sense to stay on a level a moment longer than necessary from a risk/reward perspective. Despite knowing this, personally I get attached to levels far more than I should! Playing the game a lot is the best way to learn how long you should spend on each level. It's kind of hard to explain (though I did make a post about it somewhere else on this forum). It's very rare that exploring an entire level is a good idea given that unexplored areas on new levels are just as likely to have good stuff as unexplored areas of levels you've been on awhile (which may have newly spawned monsters or monsters that were once asleep and have finally woken).

The danger ratings, just like the treasure ratings, are not fool proof indicators of their respective advisements. Shimmering vortices, for example, won't incur a high danger rating if they are not out of depth, but can easily spell your doom. Likewise, an item you might need may no longer be considered valuable by the value rating once you reach a certain depth (such as a good launcher) but which may be *extremely* valuable to you. A level with a 3 treasure feeling may be much more valuable (and safer) to you than a 9 treasure feeling level if you are too weak to carry Balance Dragon Scale Mail (9 feeling at most depths) or you cannot read a Wrath of God spell book, but most very good bows are only treasure feeling 3 for their depth. For example: a short bow of power is probably only treasure feeling 3 on DL5. While good bows may be somewhat rare at times they often do not trigger a high treasure feeling, even if they have very good to-dam values.

This doesn't mean explore every level thoroughly that has treasure feeling 3, it means don't feel bad about quitting a treasure feeling 9 level if after spending some time on the level you haven't found anything useful and see no evidence of a vault. More often than not a 9 treasure level at shallow depth will have a book you can't read or an armor you can't wear than something truly worthwhile to a Ranger: something light weight. Light weight things trigger lower value ratings than heavy things (like heavy armors and heavy weapons). As a general rule 9 treasure feelings are less meaningful early on than later on in the game. That said, 9 treasure feelings are *very* meaningful late in the game, especially at the bottom of the dungeon! If you get a 9 treasure feeling level in the DL90s you very well may want to leave no stone unturned (figuratively speaking only: items under rubble are not detected by level feelings).

[moosferatu]

Thanks, Grotug, excellent tips! I was beginning to wonder if the level feeling was leading me astray. Just makes it harder to know when to bail on a level!

I have been using more of the attack wands with this character, and, you're right, I was finding they were doing pretty good damage. It was particularly nice with this character because I found the Cloak of Thingol on DL7, which has a 95.7% chance to recharge wands/staves, making them easy to spam. That said, I just entered the 40s and haven't used any wands recently. I should give them another go.

[archolewa]

Personally, I play without level fewlings (its a bitth option) precisely because they are unreliable. If a level is sparse on loot near where I come down(i.e. within treasure location range), I usually head for the down stairs, unless there happens to be a vulnerable unique nearby, then I might kill them before going down, depending on the class.

I will occasionally go back up in the midgame if Im playing a warrior or paladin and keep having to bounce around like a pinball because everything is dangerous and waking up, but I try to avoid doing so as much as possible.

[whartung]

Reading these forums, it's clear to me I'm just not diving fast enough. Anecdotally it seems folks dive fast, dive hard and try to not leave a good looking corpse.

On my warriors, i find that it seems to be fairly easy to get in over his head. Most of the "big fights" end up sucking up a bunch of Cure * Wounds potions, speed potions, and Phase Door scrolls.

But I'm still not comfortable diving rapidly. I guess its just hard to break the habit of running around trying to kill everything and see everything. The way it's described, the game generates a large map, but folks seem to see about 25% of it.

That said, there used to be some guidelines about "you really should have this before passing Level XXX". Notably things like Free Action and See Invisible, but, later (later than I ever get), details about resistances and what not.

Are those guidelines still relevant? Is there an updated list?

I run down, but I also run back to town often. I'll spend gold freely by purchasing most anything in the store with a rune I don't know yet (since Identify scrolls have been rare for me, but I barely get down to DL30).

I guess the world is much different down there.

But that seems the mantra, go down as far as you can without getting one-shot and run away, and hope for a good drop from a random Orc.

[EpicMan]

I'm no expert diver, but I believe those "You must have X before level Y" rules have all been discarded in favor of "know thy enemy" -i.e. if you don't have resist X, watch out for monsters that breathe that element.
Stealth really helps with diving, as does detection.

The other factor is that new monsters spawn on the level as time goes on, so it becomes more and more dangerous to stay. Part of the diving method is to be ready to abandon a level as soon as it becomes too dangerous to stay.

There are an infinite number of dungeon levels you can visit, so there is basically no downside to abandoning a level, you will eventually find whatever you missed on a future level.

[mrfy]

I'm no expert diver, but I believe those "You must have X before level Y" rules have all been discarded in favor of "know thy enemy" -i.e. if you don't have resist X, watch out for monsters that breathe that element.
Stealth really helps with diving, as does detection.

There are other ways to play than the dive, dive, dive method. I tend to fully explore levels and try to kill everything. I don't dive beyond my abilities but I recognize when I'm in trouble and TO or escape. My games take a long time but I have a fair number of wins (where a win is killing all uniques not just Morgoth).

The other factor is that new monsters spawn on the level as time goes on, so it becomes more and more dangerous to stay. Part of the diving method is to be ready to abandon a level as soon as it becomes too dangerous to stay.

There's risk everywhere, turning the corner carries risk. IMO, fully exploring levels is not bad, as the monsters who appear are usually easily dealt with. But learning when you are in danger and need to retreat or leave is key.

[Sky]

my latest runs have a win% of .. uh, rough guess, 30%. Including early fails.
I don't dive, or rather, i dive in steps.

1. grind the early levels for launcher, basic IDs, magic weapon, FA, and stock on gear.

2. dive to money depth - where you start finding staves and wands - so you have enough to buy something OOD from BM

3. dive to DL25/35 depending on character once you have basic resist, SI, FA, detection, a stack of !Spd, a stack each of CSW and CCW, x3 magic launcher, sSTR and enough STR to dig granite, branded weapon; and kill early uniques (orc captains) for first artifact drops

4. dive to DL45 and stay there until you are reasonably buffed with stat potions and have plenty of TO.

5. after TO and stat buff, you can dive to DL98 and grind vaults.
I really like to have HL by then but can do without if i have great TO and many RLL.


slower descents are still better because - if you kill uniques as they show up - you can fairly safely TS around the map, while if you dive really quick you get to DL70+ and the map is stuffed full of 1-shot uniques such as Arien and Osse. Also, along the way they will drop useful artifacts and consumables; but, it's not as boring to play, which is in fact a factor on how often you die.

[moosferatu]

I have a new character going now that I think is off to a good start: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23594

I finally had a ranger that was lucky enough to find a decent bow early, and it's made a huge difference in play. My stealth is still awesome, but it doesn't matter nearly as much since this character can bring the damage.

However, unlike my other characters, this one is sorely lacking in resistances. I particularly feel nervous about not even having see invisible. I was considering temporarily swapping out Totila for Elvagil until I was able to find another source for see invisible. My character is lacking in strength, so carrying both isn't really a great option at this point. Any opinions on +6 speed vs +3 speed & see invisible?

[Sky]

Any opinions on +6 speed vs +3 speed & see invisible?

+3 Spd and SI.

At DL30 you will run with some frequency into stat-draining invisible monsters and if you get your STR drained you can just die right there and then (due to the Spd reduction that comes from carrying weight); getting your DEX drained is no fun either, more so because it comes from a crummy little monster that given no xp.

[moosferatu]

This character seems to be developing very well!

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23594

Deepest I've been. DL 39 was a real coup where I just picked both Aglarang and The Short Bow of Amrod up off the ground completely unguarded.

I'm a bit disappointed I haven't found my second book yet. Is this worth worrying about? Will it only spawn within a certain depth range?

I picked up the Arkenstone off the last level. I hadn't seen it before and was amused that the level only had a 5 level feel. Seems pretty great too me... Or maybe it's just not that rare?

[Edit] If/when I find additional books, is there any reason not to just learn every spell you're able to?

[whartung]

I read somewhere that if you have a digger in your inventory, then it automatically gets swapped when digging?

That doesn't seem to be happening in 4.2.0-dirty that I'm running.

Is the expectation wrong?

I have a Shovel of Digging in my bag, and when I look at the turns consumed when digging, it's matching what it says my Morningstar will do and not what the Shovel says it will do.

Do I need to inscribe it or anything?

[DavidMedley]

It's worked for me in the past... there's been some comments that it doesn't work if you have 2 diggers in inventory, but that doesn't sound like the case here. If you wield a blessed weapon as a holy class or a weapon that's too heavy you'll get repeated messages as you switch back and forth for every turn of digging.

[whartung]

Does a "Ring of Digging" count as more than one Digger? I may have had one in my bag. If it will "auto swap" a Ring of Digging, then I'll just carry that instead of the Shovel and save the weight.

So, i tested it. I think it works. Clearly the numbers when inspecting the items are averages, not absolutes. When it says 12 turns for granite, that's some range as I'm getting different numbers.

And, no, the digging ring doesn't swap as far as I can tell, or confuse the swap logic.

[whartung]

Does Teleport have any guarantee as to distance?

When monsters teleport me away, I seem to end up in a far corner. In fact, I've ended up in roughly the same place more than once on the same level.

With a Phase Door, I'm pretty sure it's a random spot within, like, 10-20 squares, but it's still possible that you barely move at all.

Just curious if there's any actual guarantee that you'll be ported some reasonable distance away (both self teleport and teleport other), or is it simply less likely to be close.