Never spawn some spell books

[Nick]

It was a post-oook change, made sometime in 3.x. I'm afraid I don't remember exactly when, nor do I have a link to the relevant conversation. If I recall correctly (and I likely do not) the driving principle behind the change was players wanting to know if a level was "worth exploring", which the old level feeling did not tell you.

Approximately 31st July 2011.

[Derakon]

It used to be a combined monster/loot feeling that told you that something interesting was on the level but not what. Could be good loot, could be something that will kill you. Did this change before .oook? I don't suppose someone has a link to the original conversation when it changed?

It was a post-oook change, made sometime in 3.x. I'm afraid I don't remember exactly when, nor do I have a link to the relevant conversation. If I recall correctly (and I likely do not) the driving principle behind the change was players wanting to know if a level was "worth exploring", which the old level feeling did not tell you.

[Werbaer]

Back in 2.4 I think I used them to avoid missing out permanently on artifacts left behind on a level. In those days there was a level of feeling called “special”. It’s changed since then, obviously.

The old "special" fealing is now "10". You only get it in none-preserve mode. In preserve mode, any level with a feeling of "5" or more my contain artifacts.

[Adam]

Anyway, would it make sense to change the valuation of the book as far as it affects level feelings on a per-class basis? That is, zero out the book's impact on level feelings if the player's class does not match the book. Would that address peoples' concerns here?

When I started playing Angband again a few years ago I also had this problem. But I'm not sure anything should be changed in this regard.
Shall only books be handled in a special way? Restore mana potions/staves of the magi are also useless for warriors. And that early potion of wisdom is not a "9" for many classes (I think I just saw such in the AAR section recently). A nice MoD with all important slays is still almost useless for a mage. Also gloves other than FA/Dex/Alchemist. Then come things which are not that obvious.
If class is taken into account when checking value, so could be race (FA for gnomes, rPoison for Kobolds etc).
I prefer the current situation (I know there is something valuable on the level but I don't know if it's useful for me) to inconsistency.
If any changes, I would first take a look at values because endgame consumables (*healing*, life) already around DL50 do have too low impact in my opinion.

[wobbly]

It used to be a combined monster/loot feeling that told you that something interesting was on the level but not what. Could be good loot, could be something that will kill you. Did this change before .oook? I don't suppose someone has a link to the original conversation when it changed?

[Mark]

What was the original intent for level feelings? Back in 2.4 I think I used them to avoid missing out permanently on artifacts left behind on a level. In those days there was a level of feeling called “special”. It’s changed since then, obviously.

[Chud]

I hear you, and I agree with you (well... somewhat). But, I admit I do find the level feelings frustrating sometimes too, and I'm really thinking I'm ready to abandon them in favor of the idea that "anything great here will show up again eventually," and, "therefore you don't need to seriously risk dying right now to get it."

Omens of Death.... turn out to be a pit full of... eyes. Which don't move. Basic detection and you're good, move on.

Superb treasures.... a way out of depth mage book, yay! Except, I'm a warrior. Boo.

Level feelings feed FOMO. I have enough of that in my life elsewhere.

[Derakon]

That's fair, thanks for giving it a shot.

[Voovus]

To be clear, I'm not at this moment advocating for removing level feelings from the game altogether. They're an option, I'm saying you should turn the option off.

At least try it, and if you really miss them then you can turn it back on.

Derakon -

Just did, following your suggestion, and played a whole game through. While I agree that there's something in it, overall I enjoy it more with the level feelings on. "Omens of death" is an almost essential warning for early characters (warriors) who do not yet have detection. And as for loot, in the early game I get a feeling of satisfaction when, after exploring the level, I finally find the one object that gave the "something worthwhile" message.

[fph]

I think so. Note that this makes the game very slightly easier (higher % of useful objects generated).

[Mark]

Anyway, would it make sense to change the valuation of the book as far as it affects level feelings on a per-class basis? That is, zero out the book's impact on level feelings if the player's class does not match the book. Would that address peoples' concerns here?

This would get rid of my biggest peeve with the current situation. And any peeve-reduction is a positive.

Out of curiosity, if I wanted to remove all spellbooks from spawning (because today I want to play warrior) is it as simple as deleting (or preferably, commenting out) some lines in a text file? While less convenient then an actual in-game birth option, still pretty easy if I feel strongly enough about spellbook spawns.

[Derakon]

A random thought. How about a variant of the selling option that allows the player to convert found objects to their worth of gold in the dungeon?

ZAngband (and presumably its descendants) have a "Midas Touch" mutation that lets you convert items to gold. I forget exactly how it works though.

Balance would be a little tricky, as sellers don't sell everything they find that they don't keep. They only take up the most valuable things they can fit into their packs. So you'd have to get only a fraction of the value of the item to keep the player from getting too much money too easily. Figuring out what that fraction should be is where the trickiness is.

[PowerWyrm]

A random thought. How about a variant of the selling option that allows the player to convert found objects to their worth of gold in the dungeon?

Good idea. Tales of Maj Eyal does that. When you leave a level, all items in your inventory that you marked as "junk" are converted into a small gold portion and deleted.

[spara]

A random thought. How about a variant of the selling option that allows the player to convert found objects to their worth of gold in the dungeon?

[wobbly]

Have we considered that the number of books dropping might be excessive in the first place? On my runs the no. of dungeon books I found seemed about right. The number of book 1s I found seemed to be well over the amount I'd ever use.