Tale of the Incompetant Clergyman

[Donald Jonker]

So I've trying vanilla priests lately with Eddie's patch without a modicum of success. Perhaps someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong:

I roll either a Dunadan STR17-INT10-WIS18/50-DEX11-CON17-CHR14
or
a High Elf: STR16-INT10-WIS18/10-DEX16-CON17-CHR17
(I've tried a few trolls, but at that point, why not use a paladin?)

I spend my 500GP on:
First Prayerbook
?WoR
?Phase
4 Torches
4 Rations
Sling/Shortbow & Shovel, or Mace & Shovel (if no shooters)

I then take the stairs, *dEvil+bless, pretend to be an archer, and kill what I can until I hit a downstairs. If I don't have a shooter, I hang on 50 till I have enough scratch to buy one. If I run into something that I can't handle I run back to the upstairs, or die (frequently) in the attempt.

Eventually I get *dStairs and then I head straight for the stairs, and killing whatever comes by on the way, if I can handle it. If I can't, I stairscum. I don't want to stairscum, but I can't seem to survive without it. Sometimes I'll go a little out of my way to kill some worthy monster that drops, like a kobald or snaga, but I'm never able to kill them in numbers.

Eventually I amass enough gold to buy 2?WoR and a longbow, and maybe 2nd prayerbook. I recall, gather, return to depth (unless I'm feeling dejected, in which case I repeat first dive just to have a power trip).

I keep on, reaching ~800 when I hit lvl9 and get OoD. I hang in the area but have insufficient SP to use OoD regularly (even if I have WIS18/50), and standard combat remains very weak. Then, somewhere between 800'-950' inclusive, I die. Usually it's either to something fast (a yeek) or something w/ ranged attack (kobald archer, salamanders), or just something powerful and undetectable.

Any advice? It's annoying not being able to even take on a group of snagas at clvl 10, but perhaps that's the nature of the beast.

--J

[roustk]

Sling/Shortbow & Shovel, or Mace & Shovel (if no shooters)

Have you tried a whip? It's the lightest non-bladed weapon, and thus the most likely to exploit the V combat system. I'd also make the jump to a Longbow as soon as possible.

I never use shovels in true V, but maybe Eddie's patch (no selling?) makes veins sufficiently valuable that a shovel is worthwhile.

[Donald Jonker]

Have you tried a whip? It's the lightest non-bladed weapon, and thus the most likely to exploit the V combat system. I'd also make the jump to a Longbow as soon as possible.

I never use shovels in true V, but maybe Eddie's patch (no selling?) makes veins sufficiently valuable that a shovel is worthwhile.

I can only seem to get 2 blows with the troll priest. With only one blow isn't it best to go for the biggest weapon available? Unless there's another benefit to light weapons that I'm unaware of. As for shovels, they're very worth it when you can't sell, at least for the early game.

I neglected to mention that I spend my hard earned cash on phase door and !c*w, and buy ?toDam for the bow when I can afford it. Perhaps ?toHit would be a better idea?

Also, I assume that in general it's better to shoot than to melee. But maybe I should shoot for an enchanted war hammer?

--J

[roustk]

I can only seem to get 2 blows with the troll priest. With only one blow isn't it best to go for the biggest weapon available? Unless there's another benefit to light weapons that I'm unaware of.

More blows is the main advantage of light weapons. Heavy weapons get more critical hits, if I recall correctly. Light weapons are also light, if you have weight issues. Plus, whips are fairly cheap.

I haven't played priestly types in too long, so I don't have a good feel for what the proportion of non-edged weapons is. As a warrior or mage I usually just get a dagger and wait to find a good dungeon weapon. If that works for priests, then the whip is a better buy because it is 100gp cheaper than the mace. 4-5 ?PD can be fairly valuable.

[zaimoni]

I can only seem to get 2 blows with the troll priest. With only one blow isn't it best to go for the biggest weapon available?

It depends. The whip will usually come out ahead if it's maximally enchanted on average damage, but will probably be more effective on very weak/almost dead monsters with only a moderate damage bonus.

In any case, Priests do not get enough melee attacks for me to comfortably rely on them even in the early game. Fortunately, the pointy penalty doesn't apply to (cross)bows.

[aeneas]

Any advice? It's annoying not being able to even take on a group of snagas at clvl 10, but perhaps that's the nature of the beast.

--J

Well, the best advice is to keep playing- you'll figure it out. But yes, that is the nature of the beast- groups are hard for resource-limited characters to deal with (which is OK because they are tedious and unrewarding to kill anyway). Just stay away from groups you know you can't deal with. Go after the stuff that has the best risk/reward ratio. And don't bother hanging around at snaga depth- you'll gain clvls automatically up to about the mid-20s if you keep going deeper, and every staircase takes you closer to the stuff you need to get strong. At that level having a staff of teleport is the most important thing- tele _before_ things start to go south. This does require some experience, in that you have to know when you should stand and fight and when you should flee. Rely on your bow- it can kill anything at those depths, if you don't get mobbed.

There's nothing that can kill a cautious prepared character until dlvl 34-35 or so, so it makes sense to get that deep as fast as you can even if you don't consider yourself a diver. It's particularly important to pretty much skip the 20s... just a pox of inventory-destroying hounds. Stop to grab opportune loot though, as a Priest wants a good HA weapon as early as possible, and you might get lucky. The extra points of Wis help a lot a bit later. I don't recall what depth AoWis is native to, but they're not uncommon in the early 30s.

[Pete Mack]

Stay away from mobs until you get prot evil and/or multiple blows. There's minimal %age in messing around until you reach stat gain anyway. Also USE BLESS; bcos priests have such mediocre to_hit, it makes a big difference. Until U get there, portal and detect a lot.

[AceRimmer]

Two items missing from your starting inventory -- don't know if intentionally or not:
about 4-5 ! of CSW
Armor (any kind)

Do you start the game with a ! of Healing, or is this a different version? Anyway, I sell mine and buy a few ! of CSW. They're useful. I like to have a bunch of light armor items, too.

> If I don't have a shooter, I hang on 50 till I have enough scratch to buy one.

Between casting bless and your ? of Phase Door, you should be able to dive even so. Plus, you'll often find a sling and pebbles in the early levels.

> Sometimes I'll go a little out of my way to kill some worthy monster that drops, like a kobald or snaga, but I'm never able to kill them in numbers.

I agree with "Stay away from mobs".

> I keep on, reaching ~800 when I hit lvl9 and get OoD. I hang in the area but have insufficient SP to use OoD regularly (even if I have WIS18/50), and standard combat remains very weak.

Especially at low levels, I think OoD is overrated, precisely because of the high SP and high fail risks. I prefer to first acquire most Words of Wisdom spells -- Portal, CSW, Chant, Sanctuary, and even Satisfy Hunger are all quite useful and don't tax a weak character as much.
Just as important: if I don't have OoD, it forces me to be a better fighter, and I think that actually makes me a better player. Conversely, too much OoD makes me style sloppy and I sometimes suffer for it.

> Then, somewhere between 800'-950' inclusive, I die. Usually it's either to something fast (a yeek) or something w/ ranged attack (kobald archer, salamanders), or just something powerful and undetectable.

My last two thoughts are simple, and maybe you're already doing them, but I don't want to take things for granted... (1) It sounds like you are lacking escape options. Have you learned Portal (or are you bypassing it for OoD?)? Likewise, I recommend you save up and buy a _ of Teleportation; and (2) your melee shouldn't be all that bad... makes me wonder if you are enchanting your weapon and bow up to +9 or so on to-hit and to-dam.