revisiting Angband

[AndyS]

After a very long hiatus, well over 20 years anyway. Hello all, I was glad to
learn there are still people playing and talking about this great game.

It's the only roguelike I have ever played. I played it for a year or so, not that seriously and I never beat it. So recently I thought Ive give it another shot.

After a few quick deaths and then some progress I now have a Warrior character I think has a shot anyway. I just reached Character level 41 and have some good gear but not endgame quality. But rather than get ahead of myself Im hoping for a specific bit of advice for now.

Speed is becoming a big problem. I beat some pretty tough (for my level, Im on dungeon level 60) uniques in that dungeon but there were a couple that would come back relentlessly after TO and I was out of healing and speed potions so I bailed. Im only getting plus 3 speed from my equipment and I dont even have a staff (and there arent even any potions in town right now).

My resistences and sustains are covered except for a couple of the higher resistances which I expect Ill get in time. Im thinking of swapping Calris for spear of Orome for that extra 4 speed. My HP will drop about about 100 to 890, fairly significant I think. Also I will lose resistance to disenchantment. IS the speed enough of a gain to offset those losses? Does disenchantment only protect my gear, or does it also protect my character from any attacks like mana bolt or something magical?

I am hoping to make this character last at least a little longer so Ill wait for advice before diving again. My last game I thought I was all set, cruising right along and then some hounds just obliterated me instantly on level 49, that was very frustrating and I doubt I have to tell anyone here how discouraging starting over bare-assed with a dagger is.

Thanks

Edit = I just noticed that in my house I hjave a shield of preservation. This gives me the only 3 sustains a warrior needs and also protects from disenchantment. So I will use that and drop Anarion. So now the only question seems to be whether Im better served by Oreme's speed than Calris constutution. At this point Im thinking I probably am. I'll also be losing a good chuck of damage though. God what id give for boots of speed. I think Ill carry both for now. I dove again and the cat lord was just making a fool of me. I could also augment my speed with Thalkettoth but I would lose the poison resistnce i get from MHD armour and I dont think i want to be walking around wiothout poison resistance. Maybe Ill get a ring and drop one of my damage rings. Cant have everything I guess

[Derakon]

With the amount of HP you have, you can afford to do that swap. Going from 600 to 500 HP is a much bigger deal than going from 1000 to 900 is -- with 900 max HP you're still out of one-shot range for everything except for completely unresisted fire/cold/acid/electricity breaths, and if you don't have the basic 4 elements resisted by now then something has gone desperately wrong. So I would make that swap.

Disenchantment resistance protects your equipped gear from losing pluses when hit by disenchantment attacks. It also somewhat reduces the damage that you take, though the amount of reduction is variable from around 1/6th to 5/6th if I recall correctly. It does not protect you against mana bolts or anything else that isn't explicitly labeled as disenchanting.

Speed items will come with time. They're also notably more common deeper in the dungeon. Dungeon level 80 is not significantly more dangerous than dungeon level 60, and the loot is much better, so I recommend diving. Good luck!

[AndyS]

Great, thank you very much. Down I go. It's very fun when you are in uncharted (by me) territory, lethal opponents in every dungeon. cheers

[AndyS]

Took your advice got steel shod boots +10 speed, 3 levels down, cheers

[AndyS]

Down to 74. My character levelc is still only 42 but that doesnt seem to be a major factor compared to equipment and stats. I guess from what I have read is that this is a good time to accumulate consumables for the end.

[AndyS]

the speed items indeed come quick late in the game. I suddenly have almost an overabundance. Aside from the boots and some smaller gains from other equipment, i have a plus 10 and plus 8 ring. Im wearing one and a ring of damage, I had two rings of damage on previously. Which brings me to one last question.

From here on Im just going to dive and get as many *healing* potions as I can. I read here in a thread that 20 would be sufficient. That seems like it will take quite some time. I also have quite a few banishment and destruction scrolls in my house.

But my question is about the rings vs Morgoth specifically. Not being presumptious, I still have a ways to go. But it is the goal so might as well prepare. I think I read that he isnt resistant to acid. Assuming I dont pick up a great acid weapon, should I use a ring of acid in place of the damage ring? I threw away about 10 of them doh but im sure ill come across one in the last 20 levels or so. Also I read that I want to be +30 speed minimum. Are increases beyond that a waste of resources? 2 speed rings seems like overkill and cost me a lot of damage. If you had for instance 2 rings each of acid, speed and damage, what would you use? The only brand I have is fire, and my speed is +16 without the rings.

Sorry forgot to add one thing. Does speed ever max out? Like when I put both rings on and tried a staff i was +44 . I didnt waste a potion to check but if I had would I have been +54? Would there ever be a battle where you would actually want to do that, just pour everything into speed instead of damage?

[Grotug]

1) Hopefully you'll find a better speed ring. +12 is pretty common in the DL90s, and faster ones are not too uncommon. A ring of Dam and a ring of Speed is usually the way to go.
2) You want your base speed at +20 and then haste yourself while fighting Morgoth so you are always at 30+ speed against him. Speed increases after 30 are pretty negligible, so it's better to beef up some other stat or damage rather than trying to get more than 30 speed (while hasted). When I play my goal is to reach 20 or 25 base speed and then focus on other things like damage, resistances, and stats.
3) Acid (and elemental rings in general) are for the early game and are useless in the late game (they do very little damage relative to other sources of damage that are available deep in the dungeon). Unless you have some unusual situation where you need to cover acid because you have some über setup that leaves you without rAcid, but I've never worn an elemental ring deep in the dungeon before.
4) Sauron is harmed by acid, but not Morgoth.
5) Some people on here will downplay the importance of AC. It is true it won't save you against a horrible breath attack, but given how much melee you will be doing, the importance of AC cannot be overstated. I like to have my AC above 175 in the late game. Of course damage is the most important, so generally it's not a good idea to sacrifice a lot of damage for a big increase in AC, but if you already have good speed, you'd probably sacrifce a little speed for AC. So, for instance, if you had the choice between body armor: Thalkettoth and Isildur and your base speed was +20 you would choose Isildur. If your base speed was +10 you might choose Thalkettoth, but I probably would still go with Isildur.

EDIT: The dungeon is very fond of lulling unsuspecting adventurers into a state of complacency and then suddenly killing them unceremoniously.

[wobbly]

It's also worth figuring in another 3 or so speed against Morgoth for encumbrance. I like to take everything I can fit in my pack to the final fight, which normally amounts to about -3 speed.

[AndyS]

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate the detail. The words about the sense of complacency are very wise, definitely trying to avoid that. My last game I actually broke through a wall to attack a pack of hounds, totally unnecessary I was dead in seconds, what a numbskull.

[Pete Mack]

Speed absolutely maxes out. For a melee character, anything over 30 hasted (base 20) is better off being exchanged for damage and armor. (Note that base speed is adjusted for encumbrance, so you may need a little more in bonuses.) For ranged attacks, any more than base speed 28 isn't really useful. Trouble is, most ranged attack characters need CON instead.

[Derakon]

Speed absolutely maxes out. For a melee character, anything over 30 hasted (base 20) is better off being exchanged for damage and armor. (Note that base speed is adjusted for encumbrance, so you may need a little more in bonuses.) For ranged attacks, any more than base speed 28 isn't really useful. Trouble is, most ranged attack characters need CON instead.

I wonder if it would be useful to actually make speed hard cap at +30 and keep each point as a linear effect (so +30 = 4x normal speed). Is the soft cap making a meaningful difference in peoples' gameplay decisions?

[bio_hazard]

I wonder if it would be useful to actually make speed hard cap at +30 and keep each point as a linear effect (so +30 = 4x normal speed). Is the soft cap making a meaningful difference in peoples' gameplay decisions?

I'm not sure if you are suggesting that speed above +30 is displayed but has no game effect, or if the display would cap at +30. I definitely think it is useful to know how many +'s you have so you can more easily know the impact of swapping in/out an item.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I wonder if it would be useful to actually make speed hard cap at +30 and keep each point as a linear effect (so +30 = 4x normal speed). Is the soft cap making a meaningful difference in peoples' gameplay decisions?

I think the speed works well as is. Now that there is an option to view speed as a multiplier, and when viewing a monster you can get speed comparison data, I think the diminishing speed returns become much more readily apparent to newbies.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[AndyS]

1)
5) Some people on here will downplay the importance of AC. It is true it won't save you against a horrible breath attack, but given how much melee you will be doing, the importance of AC cannot be overstated. I like to have my AC above 175 in the late game. Of course damage is the most important, so generally it's not a good idea to sacrifice a lot of damage for a big increase in AC, but if you already have good speed, you'd probably sacrifce a little speed for AC. So, for instance, if you had the choice between body armor: Thalkettoth and Isildur and your base speed was +20 you would choose Isildur. If your base speed was +10 you might choose Thalkettoth, but I probably would still go with Isildur.

This point has been especially helpful for me. For some reason (Im sure it made sense at the time) I had Isildur parked at my house and was wearing armour of the rohirrim. I got in a fight with Feagath(?) and he was meteing out some heavy damage. I forgot to wield Calris for some extra HP and didnt want to waste a turn. If I had *healing* potions I would have beaten him (his summons alone were formidable and tunneling no help against them) but I didnt and it was time to run. Anyway I learned two things: that amount of disparity in AC definitely makes a difference. And more importantly, Im nowhere near ready to fight morgoth.

Sorry if Im making this thread a play by play, I promise I wont anymore, just wanted to say thanks.

[Derakon]

I'm not sure if you are suggesting that speed above +30 is displayed but has no game effect, or if the display would cap at +30. I definitely think it is useful to know how many +'s you have so you can more easily know the impact of swapping in/out an item.

I'm suggesting something broadly similar to 18/*** stats: above some threshold extra speed has no effect beyond granting de facto resistance to being slowed. I don't much care exactly how it's displayed, though I grant that's an issue that would need to be resolved.