Why is Angband fun?

[Voovus]

"this problem is NP-hard"

Oh dear. We now have "NP-hard", "optimization" and "spectrum" on one page. If someone could squeeze in the LLL algorithm this could go into a research proposal.

Also, I like the thought of persuading my grad students to play Angband on the off chance that one of them becomes good enough at the packing problem to prove P=NP...

With apologies for being silly...

[Derakon]

Really the takeaway from this discussion is that NPPAngband should have been called PNPAngband...

[wobbly]

That got me thinking. This is certainly true for me, I distinctly remember that feeling (when playing Sil): "items are pretty boring, it would be more fun if more of them gave abilities and stuff" (although that wasn't one of the biggest problems).

This is fairly deceptive. A pair of boots[+0,1d2] in Sil is fairly strong, the same with FA on it is endgame quality. The trouble is you have to know the game well enough to realize something dull looking is actually an exciting find.

edit: And this is probably one of the things that Poschengband does much better than Vanilla?

I'd say Poschengband does the equipment puzzle straight out better then Vanilla. Pos has great items that involve a big sacrifice somewhere else. You rarely have to give anything up in V. Your shield of fire resistance gets upgraded to resistance. There's less puzzle and more replace with bigger & better.

The Sil optimization puzzle, since anywhere past early game you have little packspace and weight is also a concern, doesn't let you keep much stuff you're not wearing. You can have a couple swaps, but that's about it.

Again this is deceptive. I'm generally fitting about 5 swap weapons in my pack for most of the game sometimes more. The trouble is Sil's equipment puzzle starts disappearing as you get better. There are "natural" sets. I pretty much know from the start that FA will end up in the boot slot for instance. Warmth will be on cloak or shield & I can just do without anyway, stuff like that.

[gglibertine]

All I can say is what makes angband fun isn't winning, because I've been playing it for 20+ years and I still haven't won (though I have reached the endgame twice).

I suspect that if I ever do win, it will be more disappointing than anything else. I think for me it's the neverending challenge that appeals most.

[bio_hazard]

When I started playing Angband (25 years ago) it was fun in a nerdy slot machine kind of way. Always more to explore, always the chance of a big item. I don't say this proudly, but fun milestones would be scumming the death of Wormtongue or someone else with a potentially nice drop to see what I would get. The selling game was also a big part of it, since you could always blow it on a !Exp if there wasn't a dragon scale mail or boots of speed in the black market. The Tolkien veneer was part of the draw as well.

I appreciate the emphasis on the tactical game that's occurred during development, and I've become a bit of a better player. Regarding the earlier discussion of the meta game, I think that artifacts and item drops are also part of this. Particularly early drops are maybe as memorable as encounters with monsters, and crazy randarts are fun even if unbalancing.